4 ms·

> just giving him a goddamn prescription. You think we should just give them free drugs in addition to the housing and food we already give them? Because the d

> just giving him a goddamn prescription. You think we should just give them free drugs in addition to the housing and food we already give them? Because the drugs are cheaper than the robberies? Look, the simple fact is many people are not entrepreneurial. They work instead of doing drugs because they know they have to in order to have a decent go at life. If you just make being high all day and acceptable and low cost life decision, you could easily see 90% of people in some communities choose that option. We do actually exist on earth in the pitiful condition that if we all just sit on our asses and do nothing, we'll die.

Nursie 5y ago
> You think we should just give them free drugs in addition to the housing and food we already give them? Because the drugs are cheaper than the robberies? Does that not seem pragmatic to you? While we give them those drugs we can make sure they're not getting anything nasty or weird in there so they don't just up and die, and we can help them recover when the opportunity presents. But if you'd rather live with more petty crime, and more expensive policing, more or less for the sake of being spiteful... well you get where we are today. > If you just make being high all day and acceptable and low cost life decision, you could easily see 90% of people in some communities choose that option. I think that would be a damning verdict on how unfulfilling and hopeless those communities have become regardless of drugs.
- will4274 5y ago
  It's pragmatic in a thoroughly robotic sense. Most humans have this thing called empathy tho. > Unfulfilling and hopeless It's the human condition.
  - Nursie 5y ago
    > Most humans have this thing called empathy tho. Yeah, and that would surely cause most humans to empathise with other humans suffering from addiction, and help those others the best way they can, by a) reducing harm to the addicts and b) helping them overcome their addiction. The fact that this c) also reduces incident crime levels and reduces suffering for yet another group of humans is surely a bonus. 'Pragmatic' in this case is referring to taking actions you consider morally questionable, but with the aim of reduction of harm all around. I don't see how this is robotic or lacking in empathy. Quite the opposite. > It's the human condition. It's really not, not for 90% of a given community unless there is something else seriously wrong with that community.
nemothekid 5y ago
>in addition to the housing and food we already give them? In what US state do the homeless get housing? Or do you mean prison? >Look, the simple fact is many people are not entrepreneurial. They work instead of doing drugs because they know they have to in order to have a decent go at life. Is this from a study you've read or are you just making shit up? Isn't "Rat Park" psychology 101? This is an incredibly jarring point of view when you also consider many of the heroin addicts where onramped by doctors getting kickbacks from Purdue Pharma.
- will4274 5y ago
  What does big Pharma have to do with it? These drugs are incredibly addictive. So addictive that normal people throw their whole lives away from one course of painkillers. Your solution is to let people get them more freely. That means more people throw their lives away
  - nemothekid 5y ago
    >What does big Pharma have to do with it? You should really research Purdue Pharma litigation if you don't know. Making sweeping general statements without even being aware of one of the biggest pharmaceutical settlements in recent history is surprising. In short, Purdue Pharma was bribing doctors to get patients hooked on Oxycontin. >Your solution is to let people get them more freely. My solution has more to do with housing than free drugs. Legalized, controlled, distribution would allow hospitals to more accurately keep track of who is dependent on these drugs, and having stable housing is shown to be a requirement for rehab. Ultimately, when you look at the homeless problem you have 4 choices: you can kill them, imprison them, house them, or leave them alone. Choices (1) and (2) should never be considered in a free society; leaving choice (3) and (4). Choice (3) would mean some kind of socialized housing (a là Vienna), which is obviously a no-go in America so you find that (4) is the best option that you see implemented in America.
vkou 5y ago
> If you just make being high all day and acceptable and low cost life decision It's possible that you may think that being a homeless addict with a drug prescription is an 'acceptable low cost life decision'. I personally don't see how adding 'with a drug prescription' suddenly makes it particularly attractive and low cost. From all I can observe, living in that sort of situation is still utter misery and shit. Can't say I feel one bit of envy for it, when I drive past the onramp tents - even if the drugs were free. Do you?

Nursie 5y ago

> You think we should just give them free drugs in addition to the housing and food we already give them? Because the drugs are cheaper than the robberies? Does that not seem pragmatic to you? While we give them those drugs we can make sure they're not getting anything nasty or weird in there so they don't just up and die, and we can help them recover when the opportunity presents. But if you'd rather live with more petty crime, and more expensive policing, more or less for the sake of being spiteful... well you get where we are today. > If you just make being high all day and acceptable and low cost life decision, you could easily see 90% of people in some communities choose that option. I think that would be a damning verdict on how unfulfilling and hopeless those communities have become regardless of drugs.

will4274 5y ago
It's pragmatic in a thoroughly robotic sense. Most humans have this thing called empathy tho. > Unfulfilling and hopeless It's the human condition.
- Nursie 5y ago
  > Most humans have this thing called empathy tho. Yeah, and that would surely cause most humans to empathise with other humans suffering from addiction, and help those others the best way they can, by a) reducing harm to the addicts and b) helping them overcome their addiction. The fact that this c) also reduces incident crime levels and reduces suffering for yet another group of humans is surely a bonus. 'Pragmatic' in this case is referring to taking actions you consider morally questionable, but with the aim of reduction of harm all around. I don't see how this is robotic or lacking in empathy. Quite the opposite. > It's the human condition. It's really not, not for 90% of a given community unless there is something else seriously wrong with that community.

nemothekid 5y ago

>in addition to the housing and food we already give them? In what US state do the homeless get housing? Or do you mean prison? >Look, the simple fact is many people are not entrepreneurial. They work instead of doing drugs because they know they have to in order to have a decent go at life. Is this from a study you've read or are you just making shit up? Isn't "Rat Park" psychology 101? This is an incredibly jarring point of view when you also consider many of the heroin addicts where onramped by doctors getting kickbacks from Purdue Pharma.

will4274 5y ago
What does big Pharma have to do with it? These drugs are incredibly addictive. So addictive that normal people throw their whole lives away from one course of painkillers. Your solution is to let people get them more freely. That means more people throw their lives away
- nemothekid 5y ago
  >What does big Pharma have to do with it? You should really research Purdue Pharma litigation if you don't know. Making sweeping general statements without even being aware of one of the biggest pharmaceutical settlements in recent history is surprising. In short, Purdue Pharma was bribing doctors to get patients hooked on Oxycontin. >Your solution is to let people get them more freely. My solution has more to do with housing than free drugs. Legalized, controlled, distribution would allow hospitals to more accurately keep track of who is dependent on these drugs, and having stable housing is shown to be a requirement for rehab. Ultimately, when you look at the homeless problem you have 4 choices: you can kill them, imprison them, house them, or leave them alone. Choices (1) and (2) should never be considered in a free society; leaving choice (3) and (4). Choice (3) would mean some kind of socialized housing (a là Vienna), which is obviously a no-go in America so you find that (4) is the best option that you see implemented in America.

vkou 5y ago

> If you just make being high all day and acceptable and low cost life decision It's possible that you may think that being a homeless addict with a drug prescription is an 'acceptable low cost life decision'. I personally don't see how adding 'with a drug prescription' suddenly makes it particularly attractive and low cost. From all I can observe, living in that sort of situation is still utter misery and shit. Can't say I feel one bit of envy for it, when I drive past the onramp tents - even if the drugs were free. Do you?