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I really like the core idea here: media used to be a push model, social media turned it into a pull model but they're trying to wrest it back. I always hated th

I really like the core idea here: media used to be a push model, social media turned it into a pull model but they're trying to wrest it back. I always hated the push model of social media, which is why most of the online content I consume is via rss, including Twitter [0]. But I never thought of traditional news media media as being a push model. It makes so much intuitive sense when you say it: the reason I read newspapers is, at least in part, I want and trust them to tell me what's happening that's important. That's different than my programming blog subscriptions: I follow them because I've decided what they write is important to me. It's a subtle difference but very impact-full, and seems correct. [0] not sure of they actually have rss feeds but my rss reader supports them

PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> That's different than my programming blog subscriptions: I follow them because I've decided what they write is important to me. This makes a lot of sense for blogs and sources that are specifically focused on one subject (e.g. programming). But I'm not convinced it's as big of a difference for something like the Joe Rogan podcast (the author specifically recommends this at the end of the article). On a site like Twitter the users are still collecting a broad range of content from a broad range of people they choose. With something like the Joe Rogan podcast they're listening to shaped opinions from people that the host chooses, influenced by the topics the host allows to be discussed. Rogan is particularly famous for spreading anti-vaccine messaging right now and downplaying any pro-vaccine arguments from actual experts in the field. This seems like the epitome of biased "push" information sources.
- mrjangles 5y ago
  I think everyone has the urge to push their views onto other people once they get a platform. It is something instinctual deep within us. We tell ourselves that it is because we are so much smarter than everyone else, and we are the bearers of the one true truth, but really it is just our animal Will To Power at work. Thousands of years of evolution and the need to dominate other groups is really what is driving us to do this. Anyway, my point is that "Push" is the natural state of being. One has to work very hard to do otherwise. Someone who doesn't push, or who comes close to this, stands out above the crowd. I can think of very few hosts who do this. Joe Rogan goes out of his way to do this - to get all sorts of guests on with all sorts of perspectives - then he just shuts up and listens and asks questions. Yes he has started pushing his opinions a little, but he is better than most everyone else that I can think of.
  - PragmaticPulp 5y ago
    > to get all sorts of guests on with all sorts of perspectives - then he just shuts up and listens and asks questions Hard disagree. That may have been the case when he started the podcast but it's famously not the case now. Even the Joe Rogan fans are upset about Rogan talking over experts and forcing his own biased opinions over the evidence: https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/pg3edl/im_not_gonna_lie_im_a_little_disappointed_in_joe/ https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/pg3edl/im_not_gon... For a more recent example, apparently he mistook an obviously satirical video as actual government media and criticized the Australian government for it, before somebody pointed out that it's [obviously] a satire video: https://www.instagram.com/p/CVvyYXzgrD2/ https://www.instagram.com/p/CVvyYXzgrD2/ This stuff isn't "just asking questions". Viewpoints are being heavily pushed, but Rogan does a good job of pretending he's "just asking questions".
    - mrjangles 5y ago
      Oh ok I take it back then. I haven't watched him in a while. Sad to hear he has changed and given in to the urge to push.
    - yesenadam 5y ago
      From that instagram page, apparently Rogan's words: > Not only has Australia had the worst reaction to the pandemic with dystopian, police-state measures that are truly inconceivable to the rest of the civilized world Ohh - is he where that insane-seeming take comes from, that I've read more than a few times in HN comments over the last few months?! They sure are projecting something, apart from intense anger/rage. I couldn't begin to understand it until I read that. Or where did he get it? (Sydney here.)
      - user743 5y ago
        So what's the truth on the ground then on government control rn?
        yesenadam 5y ago
foresto 5y ago
> not sure of they actually have rss feeds but my rss reader supports them Nitter makes Twitter tolerable, and helpfully adds RSS links that should work with any reader. For example, https://nitter.net/eff https://nitter.net/eff has this link at the top: https://nitter.net/eff/rss https://nitter.net/eff/rss
tablxs 5y ago
Push, pull doesnt matter at this stage. Netflix and YouTube and HN etc are neither, and look at the attention they capture. People think they can regain control. The majority wont. Their brains have been trained for decades now to chase clicks/upvotes/views/likes and followers as if these rules are Newtons Laws or something. Different parts of the brain now are totally fubar, as in once you have been writing with your right hand for 15 years, the brain cant just, over night, rewire large chunks of the network to use your left hand. Its takes lot of discipline and most people dont have it. Probably have to write off a generation or two before things change. Look at netflix, now that they are hitting the upper bounds of attention capture using video, they predictably move to games and shorter vid formats like tiktok to keep capturing more attention. They have fucked up a whole generation with an endless supply of rewards and to keep people glued. And given the billions being raked in every hour they have won.
- InternetUser 5y ago
  What ridiculously pretentious old-person grandstanding. Let me guess--was the late 1990s the last stretch of some golden age where the youngsters of America were, for the most part, sophisticated, nuanced, intellectual critical thinkers? The glorious 1990s PlayStation and Nintendo games, network and cable television programming, popular rap and metal music, and print-magazine content of that time were something that people who were your current age then were seeing as insidious time-wasting garbage that was inarguably "fucking up" the minds of teenagers and 20-somethings. You've simply just fallen behind and gotten old; is the feature phone you carry with you a Nokia or a Motorola?
worrycue 5y ago
> social media turned it into a pull model Not really. Facebook pushes stuff to you via its Timeline. Twitter has a feed. Reddit and HN has front pages. Social media does plenty of pushing. It’s just instead of a biased human editor with common sense and perhaps a conscience filtering your news, it’s an algorithm with none of the aforementioned attributes.
- tomcatfish 5y ago
  Did you skip the paragraph the poster was referring to? They were referring to older social media where you would pick which users to follow and those would be shown to you, which mirrors RSS, a comparison explicitly mentioned in the article. The point is that now it is getting more and more "pushy", but previously it was very "pull" based when compared to traditional education.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

> That's different than my programming blog subscriptions: I follow them because I've decided what they write is important to me. This makes a lot of sense for blogs and sources that are specifically focused on one subject (e.g. programming). But I'm not convinced it's as big of a difference for something like the Joe Rogan podcast (the author specifically recommends this at the end of the article). On a site like Twitter the users are still collecting a broad range of content from a broad range of people they choose. With something like the Joe Rogan podcast they're listening to shaped opinions from people that the host chooses, influenced by the topics the host allows to be discussed. Rogan is particularly famous for spreading anti-vaccine messaging right now and downplaying any pro-vaccine arguments from actual experts in the field. This seems like the epitome of biased "push" information sources.

mrjangles 5y ago
I think everyone has the urge to push their views onto other people once they get a platform. It is something instinctual deep within us. We tell ourselves that it is because we are so much smarter than everyone else, and we are the bearers of the one true truth, but really it is just our animal Will To Power at work. Thousands of years of evolution and the need to dominate other groups is really what is driving us to do this. Anyway, my point is that "Push" is the natural state of being. One has to work very hard to do otherwise. Someone who doesn't push, or who comes close to this, stands out above the crowd. I can think of very few hosts who do this. Joe Rogan goes out of his way to do this - to get all sorts of guests on with all sorts of perspectives - then he just shuts up and listens and asks questions. Yes he has started pushing his opinions a little, but he is better than most everyone else that I can think of.
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  > to get all sorts of guests on with all sorts of perspectives - then he just shuts up and listens and asks questions Hard disagree. That may have been the case when he started the podcast but it's famously not the case now. Even the Joe Rogan fans are upset about Rogan talking over experts and forcing his own biased opinions over the evidence: https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/pg3edl/im_not_gonna_lie_im_a_little_disappointed_in_joe/ https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/pg3edl/im_not_gon... For a more recent example, apparently he mistook an obviously satirical video as actual government media and criticized the Australian government for it, before somebody pointed out that it's [obviously] a satire video: https://www.instagram.com/p/CVvyYXzgrD2/ https://www.instagram.com/p/CVvyYXzgrD2/ This stuff isn't "just asking questions". Viewpoints are being heavily pushed, but Rogan does a good job of pretending he's "just asking questions".
  - mrjangles 5y ago
    Oh ok I take it back then. I haven't watched him in a while. Sad to hear he has changed and given in to the urge to push.
  - yesenadam 5y ago
    From that instagram page, apparently Rogan's words: > Not only has Australia had the worst reaction to the pandemic with dystopian, police-state measures that are truly inconceivable to the rest of the civilized world Ohh - is he where that insane-seeming take comes from, that I've read more than a few times in HN comments over the last few months?! They sure are projecting something, apart from intense anger/rage. I couldn't begin to understand it until I read that. Or where did he get it? (Sydney here.)
    - user743 5y ago
      So what's the truth on the ground then on government control rn?
      - yesenadam 5y ago

foresto 5y ago

> not sure of they actually have rss feeds but my rss reader supports them Nitter makes Twitter tolerable, and helpfully adds RSS links that should work with any reader. For example, https://nitter.net/eff https://nitter.net/eff has this link at the top: https://nitter.net/eff/rss https://nitter.net/eff/rss

tablxs 5y ago

Push, pull doesnt matter at this stage. Netflix and YouTube and HN etc are neither, and look at the attention they capture. People think they can regain control. The majority wont. Their brains have been trained for decades now to chase clicks/upvotes/views/likes and followers as if these rules are Newtons Laws or something. Different parts of the brain now are totally fubar, as in once you have been writing with your right hand for 15 years, the brain cant just, over night, rewire large chunks of the network to use your left hand. Its takes lot of discipline and most people dont have it. Probably have to write off a generation or two before things change. Look at netflix, now that they are hitting the upper bounds of attention capture using video, they predictably move to games and shorter vid formats like tiktok to keep capturing more attention. They have fucked up a whole generation with an endless supply of rewards and to keep people glued. And given the billions being raked in every hour they have won.

InternetUser 5y ago
What ridiculously pretentious old-person grandstanding. Let me guess--was the late 1990s the last stretch of some golden age where the youngsters of America were, for the most part, sophisticated, nuanced, intellectual critical thinkers? The glorious 1990s PlayStation and Nintendo games, network and cable television programming, popular rap and metal music, and print-magazine content of that time were something that people who were your current age then were seeing as insidious time-wasting garbage that was inarguably "fucking up" the minds of teenagers and 20-somethings. You've simply just fallen behind and gotten old; is the feature phone you carry with you a Nokia or a Motorola?

worrycue 5y ago

> social media turned it into a pull model Not really. Facebook pushes stuff to you via its Timeline. Twitter has a feed. Reddit and HN has front pages. Social media does plenty of pushing. It’s just instead of a biased human editor with common sense and perhaps a conscience filtering your news, it’s an algorithm with none of the aforementioned attributes.

tomcatfish 5y ago
Did you skip the paragraph the poster was referring to? They were referring to older social media where you would pick which users to follow and those would be shown to you, which mirrors RSS, a comparison explicitly mentioned in the article. The point is that now it is getting more and more "pushy", but previously it was very "pull" based when compared to traditional education.