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Can we stop using the term "processed foods"? It's a term so broad as to lose all meaning. Processed foods include anything cooked using any method and processe

by IX-103 5y ago

Can we stop using the term "processed foods"? It's a term so broad as to lose all meaning. Processed foods include anything cooked using any method and processes such as pasteurization and fermentation. Other than fruits and an occasional salad, everything I eat is "processed" (cooked). When I see a headline like this, it literally tells me nothing. (Seriously it groups yogurt the same as root beer) Even what people tend to think of when they think of processed foods, such as ready-to-eat foods, tend to be high in preservatives such as salt, sugar, vitamins, and other food-grade additives--but all of these have different nutritional effects.

Joakal 5y ago
Welcome to the same issue with organic, natural and even junk food that all have loose definitions. What word do you like and your definition of it?
- colechristensen 5y ago
  Don’t use vague broad terms. If something has negative health consequences it’ll be one specific thing, not everything done by a machine.
- nine_k 5y ago
  Highly processed? Ultra-processed? The idea is that the processing can alter the structure of the food lightly (grilling a steak), moderately (frying a burger), or deeply (making a sausage, with all the extractions, admixing, etc). Deep processing is often used to make less edible things more edible, less palatable things more crave-inducing, and less nutritionally good things more palatable.
- IX-103 5y ago
  I also have an issue with organic and natural* as well, but that's not exactly on topic. If prefer people to use words that mean things. The article wasn't even about processed foods so much as how there is a nutritional model that shows high carbohydrate/low glycemic index foods are particularly fattening relative to their calorie content. The article could easily (and more accurately) be titled "New research highlights the damage from high carb/high sugar foods". *I mean seriously, vitamin water is "natural"? That stuff is water and sugar alcohol, with a tiny bit of stevia added so it can appear on the ingredients list for people who look for that particular keyword. Those sugar alcohols do occur naturally, I guess, but not usually in foods, and never in such quantities (and never from high fructose corn syrup).
xg15 5y ago
How about factory-processed foods or simply fast food?
- stathibus 5y ago
  Not OP, but neither of those tell me any properties of the actual food. If two "factory processed" foods have something in common that's important, it's basically a coincidence. Tell me what factory processes are bad, or something.
- IX-103 5y ago
  Is there something about being made in a factory that makes things unhealthy? Are all things that are made in a factory unhealthy (factory farming, factory packaged salads, etc). Anyway, the article was not about any of that. It was about a nutritional model describing how excess carbohydrates and low glycemic index foods would be more likely to result in obesity. None of that has anything to do with whether the food was processed, made in a factory, or packaged for convenience. Yet all are reasonable conclusions from the title. The only information in the title is effectively that "there may be a good that is bad for you".
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > or simply fast food? A banana is fast food. What do you think it is about fast that makes food bad? If I put my banana in a pot for an hour does it become better food? Nonsense.
chadcmulligan 5y ago
ultra-processed foods is the term you're looking for I think https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2019-06-19/ultraprocessed-food-what-is-it-and-how-do-i-avoid-it/11216306 https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2019-06-19/ultraprocessed...
GuB-42 5y ago
It actually has a rather precise definition, see: https://www.fao.org/3/ca5644en/ca5644en.pdf https://www.fao.org/3/ca5644en/ca5644en.pdf Usually, articles about "processed food" really mean "ultra-processed". And the general idea is that ultra-processed food is that you extract food chemicals from what is usually the cheapest sources, and transform and recombine them into a final product. By contrast regular processed food normally starts with whole ingredients rather than extracts, often of better quality because you can't make up for lower quality using extra processing and additives.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > normally starts with whole ingredients rather than extracts But the extracts come from whole ingredients, so if you think about where the extracts came from then the whole process is again using whole ingredients.
  - xg15 5y ago
    Yes, and technically, fries are vegetables.
    - xboxnolifes 5y ago
      Fries aren't unhealthy because they are cut. They are unhealthy because they are completely covered in oil.
- karaterobot 5y ago
  It's a legitimate point to raise, as page 3 of that report points out: > Food processing in itself is not the issue. One obvious reason is that nowadays, practically all food is processed in some sense and in some way. The term ‘processing’ (like the term ‘industry’) is very general and therefore not helpful, and so judgements of foods simply because they are ‘processed’ are not meaningful.
- fnord77 5y ago
  "Minimally processed foods are natural foods altered by methods that include removal of inedible or unwanted parts, and also processes that include drying, crushing, grinding, powdering, fractioning, filtering, roasting, boiling, non-alcoholic fermentation, pasteurization, chilling, freezing, placing in containers, and vacuum packaging. The distinction between unprocessed and minimally processed foods is not especially significant. "
adamkochanowicz 5y ago
Came here to say this.
xyzzy21 5y ago
Well "processed foods" ALSO contain chemicals that are never found in home-cooked food or traditional menus. Many of those chemicals are problematic. But also "natural" ingredients are often bad as well as certain ratios (e.g. high sugar and fat together, all seed oils, etc.). For example ALL seed oils are problematic; the only "fats" that is fairly safe are: butter, ghee, and coconut oil. The rest become dangerous with heat (especially unsaturated oils). So ANY food made with cotton seed, flax or similar oils are part of the problem. Processed foods means "industrial made using ingredients optimized for profit". Using seed oils is cheap. Using preservatives to extend shelf-life so that 1-3 month warehousing and shipping is possible. Therefore these are used.
- csben 5y ago
  Do you have a source for your claim that '"ALL" seed oils are problematic'? Personally, I only use seed oil (canola) to cook with. I'd definitely be interested to know if that's something I should stop doing.
  - rileyphone 5y ago
    See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid_ratio_in_food https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid_ratio_in_food - it looks like canola is less bad than most other seed oils but still not ideal. I've been using avocado oil but looking at this chart I am thinking I will incorporate more butter and coconut oil.

by IX-103 5y ago

Joakal 5y ago

Welcome to the same issue with organic, natural and even junk food that all have loose definitions. What word do you like and your definition of it?

colechristensen 5y ago
Don’t use vague broad terms. If something has negative health consequences it’ll be one specific thing, not everything done by a machine.
nine_k 5y ago
Highly processed? Ultra-processed? The idea is that the processing can alter the structure of the food lightly (grilling a steak), moderately (frying a burger), or deeply (making a sausage, with all the extractions, admixing, etc). Deep processing is often used to make less edible things more edible, less palatable things more crave-inducing, and less nutritionally good things more palatable.
IX-103 5y ago
I also have an issue with organic and natural* as well, but that's not exactly on topic. If prefer people to use words that mean things. The article wasn't even about processed foods so much as how there is a nutritional model that shows high carbohydrate/low glycemic index foods are particularly fattening relative to their calorie content. The article could easily (and more accurately) be titled "New research highlights the damage from high carb/high sugar foods". *I mean seriously, vitamin water is "natural"? That stuff is water and sugar alcohol, with a tiny bit of stevia added so it can appear on the ingredients list for people who look for that particular keyword. Those sugar alcohols do occur naturally, I guess, but not usually in foods, and never in such quantities (and never from high fructose corn syrup).

xg15 5y ago

How about factory-processed foods or simply fast food?

stathibus 5y ago
Not OP, but neither of those tell me any properties of the actual food. If two "factory processed" foods have something in common that's important, it's basically a coincidence. Tell me what factory processes are bad, or something.
IX-103 5y ago
Is there something about being made in a factory that makes things unhealthy? Are all things that are made in a factory unhealthy (factory farming, factory packaged salads, etc). Anyway, the article was not about any of that. It was about a nutritional model describing how excess carbohydrates and low glycemic index foods would be more likely to result in obesity. None of that has anything to do with whether the food was processed, made in a factory, or packaged for convenience. Yet all are reasonable conclusions from the title. The only information in the title is effectively that "there may be a good that is bad for you".
chrisseaton 5y ago
> or simply fast food? A banana is fast food. What do you think it is about fast that makes food bad? If I put my banana in a pot for an hour does it become better food? Nonsense.

chadcmulligan 5y ago

ultra-processed foods is the term you're looking for I think https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2019-06-19/ultraprocessed-food-what-is-it-and-how-do-i-avoid-it/11216306 https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2019-06-19/ultraprocessed...

GuB-42 5y ago

It actually has a rather precise definition, see: https://www.fao.org/3/ca5644en/ca5644en.pdf https://www.fao.org/3/ca5644en/ca5644en.pdf Usually, articles about "processed food" really mean "ultra-processed". And the general idea is that ultra-processed food is that you extract food chemicals from what is usually the cheapest sources, and transform and recombine them into a final product. By contrast regular processed food normally starts with whole ingredients rather than extracts, often of better quality because you can't make up for lower quality using extra processing and additives.

chrisseaton 5y ago
> normally starts with whole ingredients rather than extracts But the extracts come from whole ingredients, so if you think about where the extracts came from then the whole process is again using whole ingredients.
- xg15 5y ago
  Yes, and technically, fries are vegetables.
  - xboxnolifes 5y ago
    Fries aren't unhealthy because they are cut. They are unhealthy because they are completely covered in oil.
karaterobot 5y ago
It's a legitimate point to raise, as page 3 of that report points out: > Food processing in itself is not the issue. One obvious reason is that nowadays, practically all food is processed in some sense and in some way. The term ‘processing’ (like the term ‘industry’) is very general and therefore not helpful, and so judgements of foods simply because they are ‘processed’ are not meaningful.
fnord77 5y ago
"Minimally processed foods are natural foods altered by methods that include removal of inedible or unwanted parts, and also processes that include drying, crushing, grinding, powdering, fractioning, filtering, roasting, boiling, non-alcoholic fermentation, pasteurization, chilling, freezing, placing in containers, and vacuum packaging. The distinction between unprocessed and minimally processed foods is not especially significant. "

adamkochanowicz 5y ago

Came here to say this.

xyzzy21 5y ago

Well "processed foods" ALSO contain chemicals that are never found in home-cooked food or traditional menus. Many of those chemicals are problematic. But also "natural" ingredients are often bad as well as certain ratios (e.g. high sugar and fat together, all seed oils, etc.). For example ALL seed oils are problematic; the only "fats" that is fairly safe are: butter, ghee, and coconut oil. The rest become dangerous with heat (especially unsaturated oils). So ANY food made with cotton seed, flax or similar oils are part of the problem. Processed foods means "industrial made using ingredients optimized for profit". Using seed oils is cheap. Using preservatives to extend shelf-life so that 1-3 month warehousing and shipping is possible. Therefore these are used.

csben 5y ago
Do you have a source for your claim that '"ALL" seed oils are problematic'? Personally, I only use seed oil (canola) to cook with. I'd definitely be interested to know if that's something I should stop doing.
- rileyphone 5y ago
  See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid_ratio_in_food https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid_ratio_in_food - it looks like canola is less bad than most other seed oils but still not ideal. I've been using avocado oil but looking at this chart I am thinking I will incorporate more butter and coconut oil.