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There's a National Geographic documentary series called Drugs, Inc. [1] that I find fascinating. Let's set aside what an abject failure the so-called War on Dr

by cletus 5y ago

There's a National Geographic documentary series called Drugs, Inc. [1] that I find fascinating. Let's set aside what an abject failure the so-called War on Drugs has been in the US and the violence of the drug trade and just appreciate the market economics for a second. One episode listed all the stages coca leaves took to becoming crack cocaine. Processing in jungle labs, transportation to smugglers, further processing, flying to Mexico, entering the US and distribution. And each stage there is loss to law enforcement, rival gangs, theft, etc and that loss rate is reflected in how the price jumps at each stage. In another, it detailed how meth (IIRC) entered the US primarily in Phoenix. As a result, Phoenix has (so the show said) the cheapest meth in the US. For every 1000 miles you radiated away from Phoenix, the price doubled. To me it was fascinating to see people who generally had little education, came from terrible backgrounds and grew up amidst crime and violence talk about the math of distance and price and how it impacted his distribution organization. It's sad to see someone who actually has a talent for hustling and basically sales be lost to the drug world. This is yet another reason why I think the "are you a felon?" question should basically be outlawed in the US. Additionally you see how organizations have evolved to insulate themselves from disruption (from rivals or law enforcement). Most people know very little and certainly not the big picture. Merchandise frequently changes hands. I don't know what the solution here is. I fully support legalization of recreational cannabis in any world where alcohol consumption is legal. I certainly don't think we should be sending people to prison for possession. At the same time, you have cities like Seattle, Portland and San Francisco that are literally being destroyed by non-policing of drugs and small property crime. But the US prison industrial complex is and always has been a direct attack on the poor and minorities. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drugs,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drugs,_Inc.

ncallaway 5y ago
> This is yet another reason why I think the "are you a felon?" question should basically be outlawed in the US I mostly agree with this. First, you shouldn’t be allowed to ask about arrests, indictments, or other form of accusations. You should only be allowed to ask about convictions. Further, those questions should be limited to convictions for crimes directly related to the job at hand, and should be time limited. For example, if you’re hiring an accountant that will be managing the organization’s cash, I think you should be allowed to ask if the applicant has been convicted in the last N (let’s say 10) years of embezzlement of an employers funds. But that’s it. No questions about drug convictions, petty cash theft convictions, or anything else.
- stordoff 5y ago
  You're close to describing the England and Wales system. Cautions and convictions are generally considered 'spent' after a certain amount of time (immediately or a few months/years, depending on the offence and punishment). For most jobs, they are allowed to ask about convictions, but you only need to tell them about unspent offences. You don't need to tell them about spent offences, and they won't show up on a basic criminal records check. Spent convictions only show up in the standard/enhanced criminal records check, and employers may only request access to these for certain roles (for example, working with children or in healthcare). Further, "[i]t's against the law for an employer, university or college to refuse you a role because you've got a spent conviction or caution, unless it makes you unsuitable for the role. For example, a driving conviction might make you unsuitable for a job as a driving instructor". https://www.gov.uk/tell-employer-or-college-about-criminal-record/what-information-you-need-to-give https://www.gov.uk/tell-employer-or-college-about-criminal-r...
munificent 5y ago
> what an abject failure the so-called War on Drugs has been in the US Depends on what you think it's goals were. If it was to eliminate or significantly reduce drug use, yes, total failure. But if the goal was to continue to limit the power of African-Americans and other minorities, and transfer a ton of tax-payer dollars to the private prison industrial complex, it's been a wild success.
- batushka3 5y ago
  Nothing limited more African-Americans than normalisation of ghetto culture. This redneck inspired social behavior ruined lives of millions by making not cool to learn well at school, adopt nice public manners and perpetuate the myth that society owns you.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Nothing limited more African-Americans than Centuries of chattel slavery, a century of overt de jure discrimination and segregation after slavery, and continued institutional discrimination by policies that do not correct for but instead perpetuate the effects of the earlier overt discrimination. One (but not the most significant) direct effect of which was the alienation of the African-American community from institutions and the normalization of a culture of distrust of institutions, including the law,aw enforcement, schools, health systems, etc. (Some aspects of which are arbitrarily labelled “ghetto culture”.)

by cletus 5y ago

ncallaway 5y ago

> This is yet another reason why I think the "are you a felon?" question should basically be outlawed in the US I mostly agree with this. First, you shouldn’t be allowed to ask about arrests, indictments, or other form of accusations. You should only be allowed to ask about convictions. Further, those questions should be limited to convictions for crimes directly related to the job at hand, and should be time limited. For example, if you’re hiring an accountant that will be managing the organization’s cash, I think you should be allowed to ask if the applicant has been convicted in the last N (let’s say 10) years of embezzlement of an employers funds. But that’s it. No questions about drug convictions, petty cash theft convictions, or anything else.

stordoff 5y ago
You're close to describing the England and Wales system. Cautions and convictions are generally considered 'spent' after a certain amount of time (immediately or a few months/years, depending on the offence and punishment). For most jobs, they are allowed to ask about convictions, but you only need to tell them about unspent offences. You don't need to tell them about spent offences, and they won't show up on a basic criminal records check. Spent convictions only show up in the standard/enhanced criminal records check, and employers may only request access to these for certain roles (for example, working with children or in healthcare). Further, "[i]t's against the law for an employer, university or college to refuse you a role because you've got a spent conviction or caution, unless it makes you unsuitable for the role. For example, a driving conviction might make you unsuitable for a job as a driving instructor". https://www.gov.uk/tell-employer-or-college-about-criminal-record/what-information-you-need-to-give https://www.gov.uk/tell-employer-or-college-about-criminal-r...

munificent 5y ago

> what an abject failure the so-called War on Drugs has been in the US Depends on what you think it's goals were. If it was to eliminate or significantly reduce drug use, yes, total failure. But if the goal was to continue to limit the power of African-Americans and other minorities, and transfer a ton of tax-payer dollars to the private prison industrial complex, it's been a wild success.

batushka3 5y ago
Nothing limited more African-Americans than normalisation of ghetto culture. This redneck inspired social behavior ruined lives of millions by making not cool to learn well at school, adopt nice public manners and perpetuate the myth that society owns you.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Nothing limited more African-Americans than Centuries of chattel slavery, a century of overt de jure discrimination and segregation after slavery, and continued institutional discrimination by policies that do not correct for but instead perpetuate the effects of the earlier overt discrimination. One (but not the most significant) direct effect of which was the alienation of the African-American community from institutions and the normalization of a culture of distrust of institutions, including the law,aw enforcement, schools, health systems, etc. (Some aspects of which are arbitrarily labelled “ghetto culture”.)