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>It's also why the perennial "hiring is broken" posts and threads miss the point completely: really they're just trying to find someone they like. It's what "cu

by nbzso 5y ago

>It's also why the perennial "hiring is broken" posts and threads miss the point completely: really they're just trying to find someone they like. It's what "culture fit" really means. And people like people like themselves. This is part of what can lead to unlawful discrimination. I don't care about this, and never will care. How startups expect to make progress or deliver a groundbreaking products following this inverted psychology is beyond me. In simple words possible: I have hired people who I don't like naturally only on professional expertise and the value that they delivered to my company was immense. You cannot learn to be likeable. You don't need this nonsense. You, as a professional, must learn to communicate and respect people for their skills and accomplishments, not for similarities in music taste, consumer purchases or favorite movies. All of this crap is produced by companies who want to exploit overtime by creating emotional bonding and subjective preferences. The added "benefit" is that this artificial divide leads to generational hostility and mistrust (which is handy when someone old with experience will try to share useful information to someone young and full with illusions). I have managed teams of people who didn't like each other at all, and this was not a problem because of clear communication, procedure and company mission. It's about time, this "cultural fit" nonsense to die. Companies who are operating with this mentality will never produce long-term value. Period. It's about time, we as a community, to grow up and stop pretending that we are not having a role in growing ageism and tribalism in our industry. Can you imagine if engineers of the Apollo Program were selected by friendliness?

RandallBrown 5y ago
If your goal is to deliver the most value possible to the company you work for, your attitude is correct. My goal is to enjoy my life. To a certain extent, bringing value is enjoyable. So I try and work hard and do a good job. But if someone makes my day worse, no matter how valuable they are to my employer, I don't want to work with them. I just can't imagine hiring someone you know you won't like. I'm not saying every person that's hired has to be best friends, but with the amount of time everyone spends together there should be at least some level of friendship.
- makeitdouble 5y ago
  > there should be at least some level of friendship. With teams going full remote, does it still matter ? There’s people I work with day to day I’ll never meet more that once in a month. Same way there’s people I clearly don’t click with on a personal level, but we’re literally keeping distances. I feel a lot of these rhetorics will have to change now that the day to day life also has change for so many of us.
  - RandallBrown 5y ago
    It probably matters less but I've worked remotely for almost 3 years and I definitely am glad to be at least somewhat friends with my team. You still need to communicate with your coworkers and being able to develop a rapport is a lot easier (for me) if you have at least something in common.
- nbzso 5y ago
  > But if someone makes my day worse, no matter how valuable they are to my employer, I don't want to work with them. With all due respect, how do you define "makes my day worse"? If proper communication in strictly professional use-case is present, nobody's day will be defined as "worst" or "better". Friendship is cool, but is subjective and temporary form of perception. People characters change under pressure or due to personal internal or external events. As always there is exception of this rule, but in general building trust trough honesty and open communication is the better investment. Respecting someone for knowledge, experience and abilities has long-term value in life and obviously in production reality.
  - yupper32 5y ago
    > Respecting someone for knowledge, experience and abilities has long-term value in life Sure but is that fun? You're still laser focused on sucking value and productivity out of everything. I spend a MASSIVE amount of time with my coworkers (40+ hours a week!). If they're not fun to work with then I'm leaving.
  - salawat 5y ago
andreilys 5y ago
You cannot learn to be likeable. Learning basic social skills is pretty easy for most non-neurodivergent humans It's about time, this "cultural fit" nonsense to die. Companies who are operating with this mentality will never produce long-term value. Period. Ah yes, because all the companies that have toxic cultures where nobody likes each other are thriving right? I think as with most things, you need a balance. If you have an active dislike of someone because of rude behavior, the chances that you're able to collaborate and work on something together is nil.
- nbzso 5y ago
  > Ah yes, because all the companies that have toxic cultures where nobody likes each other are thriving right? I think as with most things, you need a balance. If you have an active dislike of someone because of rude behavior, the chances that you're able to collaborate and work on something together is nil. So the solution in your view to select with "cultural fit" first. My solutions is proper management and clear communication without bias. You are right. It is about the balance. Balance but with preferences towards skillset and adequate professional behavior. The workplace must be objective place. And to bring a balance, companies must abandon sentimental or "politically correct" agendas. This is place for work. Not some "brotherhood", "family and friends" kindergarten created with subjective selection at the get go. You go to work to produce value and exchange this for money. If monetary award and participation in value creation process is not enough, and the goal is to model people behavior toward "trends" things will go south fast.
jjav 5y ago
> How startups expect to make progress or deliver a groundbreaking products following this inverted psychology is beyond me. The vast majority of startups are not doing any groundbreaking technology, they're just packaging some crummy REST APIs written in a hairball of messy slow code.

by nbzso 5y ago

RandallBrown 5y ago

If your goal is to deliver the most value possible to the company you work for, your attitude is correct. My goal is to enjoy my life. To a certain extent, bringing value is enjoyable. So I try and work hard and do a good job. But if someone makes my day worse, no matter how valuable they are to my employer, I don't want to work with them. I just can't imagine hiring someone you know you won't like. I'm not saying every person that's hired has to be best friends, but with the amount of time everyone spends together there should be at least some level of friendship.

makeitdouble 5y ago
> there should be at least some level of friendship. With teams going full remote, does it still matter ? There’s people I work with day to day I’ll never meet more that once in a month. Same way there’s people I clearly don’t click with on a personal level, but we’re literally keeping distances. I feel a lot of these rhetorics will have to change now that the day to day life also has change for so many of us.
- RandallBrown 5y ago
  It probably matters less but I've worked remotely for almost 3 years and I definitely am glad to be at least somewhat friends with my team. You still need to communicate with your coworkers and being able to develop a rapport is a lot easier (for me) if you have at least something in common.
nbzso 5y ago
> But if someone makes my day worse, no matter how valuable they are to my employer, I don't want to work with them. With all due respect, how do you define "makes my day worse"? If proper communication in strictly professional use-case is present, nobody's day will be defined as "worst" or "better". Friendship is cool, but is subjective and temporary form of perception. People characters change under pressure or due to personal internal or external events. As always there is exception of this rule, but in general building trust trough honesty and open communication is the better investment. Respecting someone for knowledge, experience and abilities has long-term value in life and obviously in production reality.
- yupper32 5y ago
  > Respecting someone for knowledge, experience and abilities has long-term value in life Sure but is that fun? You're still laser focused on sucking value and productivity out of everything. I spend a MASSIVE amount of time with my coworkers (40+ hours a week!). If they're not fun to work with then I'm leaving.
- salawat 5y ago

andreilys 5y ago

You cannot learn to be likeable. Learning basic social skills is pretty easy for most non-neurodivergent humans It's about time, this "cultural fit" nonsense to die. Companies who are operating with this mentality will never produce long-term value. Period. Ah yes, because all the companies that have toxic cultures where nobody likes each other are thriving right? I think as with most things, you need a balance. If you have an active dislike of someone because of rude behavior, the chances that you're able to collaborate and work on something together is nil.

nbzso 5y ago
> Ah yes, because all the companies that have toxic cultures where nobody likes each other are thriving right? I think as with most things, you need a balance. If you have an active dislike of someone because of rude behavior, the chances that you're able to collaborate and work on something together is nil. So the solution in your view to select with "cultural fit" first. My solutions is proper management and clear communication without bias. You are right. It is about the balance. Balance but with preferences towards skillset and adequate professional behavior. The workplace must be objective place. And to bring a balance, companies must abandon sentimental or "politically correct" agendas. This is place for work. Not some "brotherhood", "family and friends" kindergarten created with subjective selection at the get go. You go to work to produce value and exchange this for money. If monetary award and participation in value creation process is not enough, and the goal is to model people behavior toward "trends" things will go south fast.

jjav 5y ago

> How startups expect to make progress or deliver a groundbreaking products following this inverted psychology is beyond me. The vast majority of startups are not doing any groundbreaking technology, they're just packaging some crummy REST APIs written in a hairball of messy slow code.