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I do push for changes, such as bringing ideas to the team lead and bringing these things up with my manager (hence being brought up in reviews). There is a sel

I do push for changes, such as bringing ideas to the team lead and bringing these things up with my manager (hence being brought up in reviews). There is a self-reinforcing aspect to learned helplessness in teams, as you've pointed out.

afarrell 5y ago
In my experience, this sort of thing is why good leadership has an outsized impact.
mixmastamyk 5y ago
All you have to do is say no once in a while. No, don't bring the company to a halt with a tantrum. Just insist on getting one thing fixed a month and nine months from now everyone will be a lot happier.
- Iefthandrule 5y ago
  Can't teach everyone to have a backbone. Heck, nerds are infamous for being easy to manipulate.
  - SaltyBackendGuy 5y ago
    Anecdotally, the most manipulative individual I've ever met was a nerd.
    - Iefthandrule 5y ago
      Who better to profit off of nerds? It's not like there is any kind of solidarity or union among techies.
- beachy 5y ago
  > All you have to do is say no once in a while... > Just insist... Some companies work like this, but many don't. Such utterances could be charting a course to the door for you.
  - mixmastamyk 5y ago
    Plenty of openings out there. Not worth suffering to get a 2% raise rather than 1%. If they won't let you fix something once a month it's time to get moving. Learned helplessness, indeed.
    - YawningAngel 5y ago
      It isn't learned helplessness if you are actually helpless.
      - mixmastamyk 5y ago
        The whole point of the article is that the vast majority of engineering teams have some power. It's not a license to derail the company with technical OCD, but as in all things… "balance, grasshopper." Yes, there is 1% who can't follow that advice for various reasons of desperation. Not enough to continue arguing this thread.
- crispyambulance 5y ago
  > All you have to do is say no once in a while. Being able to say "no" is absolutely critical. Of course, you do incur a risk and you may fail or hurt your career in that org up to the point of termination even if you're "right". Moreover your follow-up after saying "no" will be judged harshly and silently for every little snag, real or not. But that's part of the deal, right? It's not easy, if it were easy you'd have dream-teams all over the place rather than an industry where occupational dysfunction is normal.

afarrell 5y ago

In my experience, this sort of thing is why good leadership has an outsized impact.

mixmastamyk 5y ago

All you have to do is say no once in a while. No, don't bring the company to a halt with a tantrum. Just insist on getting one thing fixed a month and nine months from now everyone will be a lot happier.

Iefthandrule 5y ago
Can't teach everyone to have a backbone. Heck, nerds are infamous for being easy to manipulate.
- SaltyBackendGuy 5y ago
  Anecdotally, the most manipulative individual I've ever met was a nerd.
  - Iefthandrule 5y ago
    Who better to profit off of nerds? It's not like there is any kind of solidarity or union among techies.
beachy 5y ago
> All you have to do is say no once in a while... > Just insist... Some companies work like this, but many don't. Such utterances could be charting a course to the door for you.
- mixmastamyk 5y ago
  Plenty of openings out there. Not worth suffering to get a 2% raise rather than 1%. If they won't let you fix something once a month it's time to get moving. Learned helplessness, indeed.
  - YawningAngel 5y ago
    It isn't learned helplessness if you are actually helpless.
    - mixmastamyk 5y ago
      The whole point of the article is that the vast majority of engineering teams have some power. It's not a license to derail the company with technical OCD, but as in all things… "balance, grasshopper." Yes, there is 1% who can't follow that advice for various reasons of desperation. Not enough to continue arguing this thread.
crispyambulance 5y ago
> All you have to do is say no once in a while. Being able to say "no" is absolutely critical. Of course, you do incur a risk and you may fail or hurt your career in that org up to the point of termination even if you're "right". Moreover your follow-up after saying "no" will be judged harshly and silently for every little snag, real or not. But that's part of the deal, right? It's not easy, if it were easy you'd have dream-teams all over the place rather than an industry where occupational dysfunction is normal.