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I don't think you quite get it. Many people who would like to use jQuery have to justify it to a client and/or manager first. That's not very easy to do if the

I don't think you quite get it. Many people who would like to use jQuery have to justify it to a client and/or manager first. That's not very easy to do if the they go to jquery.com and see such a silly and puerile display. As a developer, I don't give a shit. If they want to put a collection of the world's smelliest cheeses on their front page, that's a-OK by me. But these marketing artifacts absolutely do matter to most of the business types making decisions out there that I have to answer to.

KirinDave 18y ago
Wait, wait, wait. Who on earth has to justify a javascript framework to their boss? There's so much competition and, unlike in the C++ or Java world, there's no agreement about what's best. Even Microsoft and Google haven't hammered down "the solution". Many projects use 2-3 frameworks. I've worked at (and am now working at) some pretty big companies, and I've never heard of such a practice moving over to web development. There is usually just a license audit and that's it. And if you're a consultant justifying your use of jquery to your client, you are doing it wrong. They don't care what you use, they care about what licenses you use and how it works when you're done. I think the complaint itself is "puerile" and pretty darn shallow. The illustration may have been ugly and as one of the original people to have an official job title of "ruby on rails rock star" I'm kind of tired of the metaphor. But I'm not about to throw a giant multi-venue tantrum and poop on the jquery guy's fun.
- dmose 18y ago
  I had to justify it to my boss and my fellow developers because everyone has their preference. Some want to use YUI, some want to use prorotype. In the end, the boss makes the decision and the availability of an MIT license comes into play, so he's going to the homepage either way and the last thing I want him to see is some cheesy rockstar shit for a framework that's going into a massive line of business SaaS application.
  - KirinDave 18y ago
    > Some want to use YUI, some want to use prorotype. Well, the nice thing about jQuery is that it is not exclusive. But I'm really surprised that you haven't gone and talked to the other engineers on the project and come up with a unified plan. If the majority of people want to use prototype and you can't show them why they shouldn't, then you probably don't have a good argument against them. You have to justify jQuery to other engineers, and then your boss's opinion becomes largely immaterial unless he's utterly terribly at his job. > last thing I want him to see some cheesy rockstar shit for a framework that's going into a massive line of business SaaS application. If you really do have to justify it to him... The first thing you want him to see is an unbiased assessment of the library's features and capabilities (not the least of which is its ability to play nicely with other libraries). The second thing you want him to see is other engineers agreeing to use it. That way when he saw the last thing, the rockstar, his mind would probably already be made up. You make it sound like you have 0 influence over the course of the project you're involved with. If a silly graphic has the power to derail your framework choice, you didn't do your homework in the first place.
- river_styx 18y ago
  I have to justify all major technical decisions, including choice of JS framework, to the project manager and a technical oversight committee at my company. I work for a mid-sized custom development/consulting firm. Not all of us have the luxury of setting our own rules.
  - KirinDave 18y ago
    And that justification includes things like the look of their website?
    - river_styx 18y ago
      Yes, in that it's much harder for me to make my case if their website looks like the myspace page of a 15 year old.
      - KirinDave 18y ago
        This kind of hyperbole makes you look like an unmitigated jackass. Please stop, since I'm pretty sure you're not that bad. The actual site design is great. It was one illustration. Why exactly should a single image on the front site make or break your technical case? Have you considered that this might be an indication that your technical case was extremely weak? Or maybe that you're being hard on anyone who exhibits even an inkling of whimsy on their project? Sheesh. Next you're going to say their association with Devo also hurts jQuery's case because your boss hated Devo.
        river_styx 18y ago
        This kind of hyperbole makes you look like an unmitigated jackass. You're right. Sorry about the hyperbole. Why exactly should a single image on the front site make or break your technical case? Have you considered that this might be an indication that your technical case was extremely weak? I agree with you, of course, but I think you're underestimating how important appearances are to these middle-management types. Especially the ones at service-based companies. They will visit the website to research a tool that I want to use, and if it doesn't look professional, it will get rejected regardless of any technical argument I make. This is true for everyone, not just me.

KirinDave 18y ago

Wait, wait, wait. Who on earth has to justify a javascript framework to their boss? There's so much competition and, unlike in the C++ or Java world, there's no agreement about what's best. Even Microsoft and Google haven't hammered down "the solution". Many projects use 2-3 frameworks. I've worked at (and am now working at) some pretty big companies, and I've never heard of such a practice moving over to web development. There is usually just a license audit and that's it. And if you're a consultant justifying your use of jquery to your client, you are doing it wrong. They don't care what you use, they care about what licenses you use and how it works when you're done. I think the complaint itself is "puerile" and pretty darn shallow. The illustration may have been ugly and as one of the original people to have an official job title of "ruby on rails rock star" I'm kind of tired of the metaphor. But I'm not about to throw a giant multi-venue tantrum and poop on the jquery guy's fun.

dmose 18y ago
I had to justify it to my boss and my fellow developers because everyone has their preference. Some want to use YUI, some want to use prorotype. In the end, the boss makes the decision and the availability of an MIT license comes into play, so he's going to the homepage either way and the last thing I want him to see is some cheesy rockstar shit for a framework that's going into a massive line of business SaaS application.
- KirinDave 18y ago
  > Some want to use YUI, some want to use prorotype. Well, the nice thing about jQuery is that it is not exclusive. But I'm really surprised that you haven't gone and talked to the other engineers on the project and come up with a unified plan. If the majority of people want to use prototype and you can't show them why they shouldn't, then you probably don't have a good argument against them. You have to justify jQuery to other engineers, and then your boss's opinion becomes largely immaterial unless he's utterly terribly at his job. > last thing I want him to see some cheesy rockstar shit for a framework that's going into a massive line of business SaaS application. If you really do have to justify it to him... The first thing you want him to see is an unbiased assessment of the library's features and capabilities (not the least of which is its ability to play nicely with other libraries). The second thing you want him to see is other engineers agreeing to use it. That way when he saw the last thing, the rockstar, his mind would probably already be made up. You make it sound like you have 0 influence over the course of the project you're involved with. If a silly graphic has the power to derail your framework choice, you didn't do your homework in the first place.
river_styx 18y ago
I have to justify all major technical decisions, including choice of JS framework, to the project manager and a technical oversight committee at my company. I work for a mid-sized custom development/consulting firm. Not all of us have the luxury of setting our own rules.
- KirinDave 18y ago
  And that justification includes things like the look of their website?
  - river_styx 18y ago
    Yes, in that it's much harder for me to make my case if their website looks like the myspace page of a 15 year old.
    - KirinDave 18y ago
      This kind of hyperbole makes you look like an unmitigated jackass. Please stop, since I'm pretty sure you're not that bad. The actual site design is great. It was one illustration. Why exactly should a single image on the front site make or break your technical case? Have you considered that this might be an indication that your technical case was extremely weak? Or maybe that you're being hard on anyone who exhibits even an inkling of whimsy on their project? Sheesh. Next you're going to say their association with Devo also hurts jQuery's case because your boss hated Devo.
      - river_styx 18y ago
        This kind of hyperbole makes you look like an unmitigated jackass. You're right. Sorry about the hyperbole. Why exactly should a single image on the front site make or break your technical case? Have you considered that this might be an indication that your technical case was extremely weak? I agree with you, of course, but I think you're underestimating how important appearances are to these middle-management types. Especially the ones at service-based companies. They will visit the website to research a tool that I want to use, and if it doesn't look professional, it will get rejected regardless of any technical argument I make. This is true for everyone, not just me.