10 ms·

So wait, if you close your eyes and picture Mount Everest, you can't see Mount Everest in your head? For me it's easy to "fly" around my neighborhood just by c

by boc 5y ago

So wait, if you close your eyes and picture Mount Everest, you can't see Mount Everest in your head? For me it's easy to "fly" around my neighborhood just by closing my eyes and remembering what the streets and trees and houses look like as I take a lap. I can see off into the distance, I can see the sidewalk cracks, I can see people... all of them are obviously fuzzed versions of reality but nonetheless they're relatively easy to see. I figured everyone was able to do that to some extent.

JaimeThompson 5y ago
It is called aphantasia and I have it too. I am totally unable to picture anything in my head despite trying for years.
- agent327 5y ago
  How about abstract concepts? If I ask you to imagine something mathematical, like a circle in a square, do you 'see' anything?
  - JaimeThompson 5y ago
    Personally I see nothing no matter what I try to imagine. There are various degrees of it, some can "see" various amounts it seems. This [1] is a decent place for more info. [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/Aphantasia/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Aphantasia/
checkyoursudo 5y ago
If I close my eyes, I can see nothing. If I keep my eyes open, I can sort of barely super-impose some ghostly relief of the thing I am supposedly imagining. My wife can see like full Technicolor motion pictures in her mind with special effects and superstar cameos. I am jealous. My mind is seriously black when I close my eyes. On the plus side for me, it is super easy for me to fall asleep whenever I want, because it's just black and blank and boring when I close my eyes at bed time. :)
- fbanon 5y ago
  >My wife can see like full Technicolor motion pictures in her mind with special effects and superstar cameos. Nah, it's not like that. When we imagine something it's not like we actually see those things like real visual stimuli. The experience is more abstract than that. There is a vague visual aspect to it, but it's not hi-def like real vision, just fragments appearing then disappearing in your mind. So it's not at all like dreaming. * at least for me.
  - checkyoursudo 5y ago
    I have no first-hand experience with what it's like, so I cannot comment on the veracity of what people have told me or I have read about it since learning about aphantasia. However, my wife assures me that it is in fact like a real, hi-def movie playing in her mind, and I have since read a number of accounts of artists who literally just draw or paint exactly what they see with their minds' eye(s), and talked with plenty of people who have varying degrees of inner vision. I take you at your word for your experience. I likewise have no reason to think my wife, for example, is exaggerating to me. My wife has a photographic memory, and she can literally recreate stuff down to almost absurd details. I think it is possible you may be underestimating what other people see in their minds. :)
    - fbanon 5y ago
      I've asked a few people and everyone said that their imagination is not as hi-def as their vision. I.e. when they imagine something it's not like an image was cut & pasted onto their visual field. So I'm pretty sure your friends were exaggerating, or meant hi-def in a different sense.
      - checkyoursudo 5y ago
        I'm not so sure. "Our discovery, or rediscovery, that around 2-3% of the population, with aphantasia, lack a mind’s eye, and that a somewhat larger percentage, with hyperphantasia, have imagery that is ‘as vivid as real seeing’ has captured huge public interest, and led to a sustained surge of citizen science. We have been astonished – and delighted – to receive over 14,000 contacts from members of the public with extreme imagery since coining the terms in 2015."[1] > ‘as vivid as real seeing’ I can only take others' word for it, but why would I disbelieve this? Especially when I myself have the other extreme of nothingness? Why would so many people lie or exaggerate about seeing mental imagery "as vivid as real seeing"? [1] https://sites.exeter.ac.uk/eyesmind/2020/05/04/an-update-on-extreme-imagination-aphantasiahyperphantasia/ https://sites.exeter.ac.uk/eyesmind/2020/05/04/an-update-on-...
pempem 5y ago
That. is amazing! I cannot see anything personally without a visual reference right before closing my eyes. I can begin to use words to reason my way around the block, but even then despite seeing them so often, I cannot picture them.
ars 5y ago
> So wait, if you close your eyes and picture Mount Everest, you can't see Mount Everest in your head? I can picture the concept of Mount Everest. But it's more of an abstract idea. Like I don't actually see a mountain in color as if it were in front of me. But there's this "mental concept" sitting in front of me. Are you able to actually "see" a picture? Are most people able to do that? I've never noticed a limitation in myself - I can easily visualize how things will look if arranged, but I don't see a picture like a painting, rather I see the concept of the object. So I figured I was typical.
- ManuelKiessling 5y ago
  What was the last movie you saw? Do you remember any specific color from this movie, like, idk, the color of the car the hero drove or something like that? If you didn‘t make a mental note of that color while watching the movie, then how would you re-call that information now, without visualizing it in your mind? Can you give us an idea? For example, what is the color of the laser beam of the death star? Do you „see“ the colored beam in your mind? I do, and it‘s the only mental mechanism I have to answer that question. Without that, I would have to look it up via Google Image Search or whatever, make a mental note of the specific answer, and would have to recall the answer instead of recalling the image, I guess…?
- boc 5y ago
  Not sure about others but I can see what my brain thinks is a picture of Mount Everest. It's not a photorealistic image because I've never actually seen it IRL, but it's just a composite idea of Everest from movies, YouTube videos, images, etc. Now it's not quite the same as seeing something like you would through your eyes - you still see darkness when you close your eyes - but it's a vision that you can see in your "mind's eye" which is in color, vivid, you can hear it, smell it, feel it.
garaetjjte 5y ago
>So wait, if you close your eyes Is this just figurative phrase or some people need to close their eyes to visualize images? I can imagine things, but they are not real visual stimuli that I see, they are more abstract going directly to the mind. Thus it doesn't matter whether my eyes are closed or what I'm looking at, it is independent from real sight.
- vasco 5y ago
  I don't, closing your eyes is completely unnecessary for any of this stuff. I assume it's just a phrase.
- johnchristopher 5y ago
  It's easier for me when I close my eyes because I don't have to consciously ignore what I actually see. But I can totally get in the zone with opened eyes, generally when I let my mind wander (on a train or bus trip or on a walk for instance).

by boc 5y ago

JaimeThompson 5y ago

It is called aphantasia and I have it too. I am totally unable to picture anything in my head despite trying for years.

agent327 5y ago
How about abstract concepts? If I ask you to imagine something mathematical, like a circle in a square, do you 'see' anything?
- JaimeThompson 5y ago
  Personally I see nothing no matter what I try to imagine. There are various degrees of it, some can "see" various amounts it seems. This [1] is a decent place for more info. [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/Aphantasia/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Aphantasia/

checkyoursudo 5y ago

If I close my eyes, I can see nothing. If I keep my eyes open, I can sort of barely super-impose some ghostly relief of the thing I am supposedly imagining. My wife can see like full Technicolor motion pictures in her mind with special effects and superstar cameos. I am jealous. My mind is seriously black when I close my eyes. On the plus side for me, it is super easy for me to fall asleep whenever I want, because it's just black and blank and boring when I close my eyes at bed time. :)

fbanon 5y ago
>My wife can see like full Technicolor motion pictures in her mind with special effects and superstar cameos. Nah, it's not like that. When we imagine something it's not like we actually see those things like real visual stimuli. The experience is more abstract than that. There is a vague visual aspect to it, but it's not hi-def like real vision, just fragments appearing then disappearing in your mind. So it's not at all like dreaming. * at least for me.
- checkyoursudo 5y ago
  I have no first-hand experience with what it's like, so I cannot comment on the veracity of what people have told me or I have read about it since learning about aphantasia. However, my wife assures me that it is in fact like a real, hi-def movie playing in her mind, and I have since read a number of accounts of artists who literally just draw or paint exactly what they see with their minds' eye(s), and talked with plenty of people who have varying degrees of inner vision. I take you at your word for your experience. I likewise have no reason to think my wife, for example, is exaggerating to me. My wife has a photographic memory, and she can literally recreate stuff down to almost absurd details. I think it is possible you may be underestimating what other people see in their minds. :)
  - fbanon 5y ago
    I've asked a few people and everyone said that their imagination is not as hi-def as their vision. I.e. when they imagine something it's not like an image was cut & pasted onto their visual field. So I'm pretty sure your friends were exaggerating, or meant hi-def in a different sense.
    - checkyoursudo 5y ago
      I'm not so sure. "Our discovery, or rediscovery, that around 2-3% of the population, with aphantasia, lack a mind’s eye, and that a somewhat larger percentage, with hyperphantasia, have imagery that is ‘as vivid as real seeing’ has captured huge public interest, and led to a sustained surge of citizen science. We have been astonished – and delighted – to receive over 14,000 contacts from members of the public with extreme imagery since coining the terms in 2015."[1] > ‘as vivid as real seeing’ I can only take others' word for it, but why would I disbelieve this? Especially when I myself have the other extreme of nothingness? Why would so many people lie or exaggerate about seeing mental imagery "as vivid as real seeing"? [1] https://sites.exeter.ac.uk/eyesmind/2020/05/04/an-update-on-extreme-imagination-aphantasiahyperphantasia/ https://sites.exeter.ac.uk/eyesmind/2020/05/04/an-update-on-...

pempem 5y ago

That. is amazing! I cannot see anything personally without a visual reference right before closing my eyes. I can begin to use words to reason my way around the block, but even then despite seeing them so often, I cannot picture them.

ars 5y ago

> So wait, if you close your eyes and picture Mount Everest, you can't see Mount Everest in your head? I can picture the concept of Mount Everest. But it's more of an abstract idea. Like I don't actually see a mountain in color as if it were in front of me. But there's this "mental concept" sitting in front of me. Are you able to actually "see" a picture? Are most people able to do that? I've never noticed a limitation in myself - I can easily visualize how things will look if arranged, but I don't see a picture like a painting, rather I see the concept of the object. So I figured I was typical.

ManuelKiessling 5y ago
What was the last movie you saw? Do you remember any specific color from this movie, like, idk, the color of the car the hero drove or something like that? If you didn‘t make a mental note of that color while watching the movie, then how would you re-call that information now, without visualizing it in your mind? Can you give us an idea? For example, what is the color of the laser beam of the death star? Do you „see“ the colored beam in your mind? I do, and it‘s the only mental mechanism I have to answer that question. Without that, I would have to look it up via Google Image Search or whatever, make a mental note of the specific answer, and would have to recall the answer instead of recalling the image, I guess…?
boc 5y ago
Not sure about others but I can see what my brain thinks is a picture of Mount Everest. It's not a photorealistic image because I've never actually seen it IRL, but it's just a composite idea of Everest from movies, YouTube videos, images, etc. Now it's not quite the same as seeing something like you would through your eyes - you still see darkness when you close your eyes - but it's a vision that you can see in your "mind's eye" which is in color, vivid, you can hear it, smell it, feel it.

garaetjjte 5y ago

>So wait, if you close your eyes Is this just figurative phrase or some people need to close their eyes to visualize images? I can imagine things, but they are not real visual stimuli that I see, they are more abstract going directly to the mind. Thus it doesn't matter whether my eyes are closed or what I'm looking at, it is independent from real sight.

vasco 5y ago
I don't, closing your eyes is completely unnecessary for any of this stuff. I assume it's just a phrase.
johnchristopher 5y ago
It's easier for me when I close my eyes because I don't have to consciously ignore what I actually see. But I can totally get in the zone with opened eyes, generally when I let my mind wander (on a train or bus trip or on a walk for instance).