5 ms·

As a person scarily close to 40 years old, I played a lot of old games on the Atarti 2600, Colecovision, C64 (my first computer) etc, and IMO Super Mario Brothe

As a person scarily close to 40 years old, I played a lot of old games on the Atarti 2600, Colecovision, C64 (my first computer) etc, and IMO Super Mario Brothers on the NES is the oldest 'home' (console or PC) videogame that is still legitimately fun to play. I can enjoy games older than SMB for nostalgic value and had a lot of fun with them at the time I first played them, but in terms of pure gameplay value, none of them really hold up when viewed outside of the rose tinted glasses, IMO.

wazoox 15y ago
I beg to disagree. I still have my faithful 2600, and many games are still entertaining : Ms. PacMan, Phoenix, Enduro... In fact they match quite closely the current trend for simple, easy to grasp games that you play for 15 minutes once in a while.
tluyben2 15y ago
Big difference I find between playing modern games or playing these old games is this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/The_Arcade_Turbo_Joystick.jpg/200px-The_Arcade_Turbo_Joystick.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/The... . And for me it makes all the difference; I find controls on most modern systems wonky and hard to use for a whole group of games (notably games with a lot of action like shmups). I tried a bunch of 'pc' joysticks and they all seem to need 6000 buttons like http://images.gizmag.com/hero/x-arcade-dual-joystick.jpg http://images.gizmag.com/hero/x-arcade-dual-joystick.jpg (which is a sure proof the game that needs that is flawed anyway) and I pull the actual stick right off (on these kinds; http://www.techgadgets.in/images/genius-metalstrike-ff-joystick.jpg http://www.techgadgets.in/images/genius-metalstrike-ff-joyst...) during a serious action game. The PS1..3 and WII controls are not really interesting either; during Gradius V on PS2 I always think I have leprosy in my fingers; how can you whirl around masses of bullets coming at you, enemies trying to bump into you and keeping outside of the boss lasers with those tiny buttons. Sure after practicing 1000x you'll manage and I can do it still (haven't played it for years), but with a decent joystick I can still manage to play those game round without dying, while this is kind of impossible with these dingy pads. Or maybe that's just me. This makes me get back to my systems in the attic (MSX-2 & Amiga) when I want to play a game; I made plugs on my old NES + PS1 to connect the Arcade joystick. I didn't manage that with the others yet, so I find myself playing on the old machines. No rose tinted glasses; just less of a frustration to play.
- bane 15y ago
  Funny you mention joysticks vs. modern controls. I find that I love d-pad like controls, but loath joysticks. I find I have more fun even with older games if I play them with a d-pad. However, I almost can't stand analog sticks and would take a proper joystick over one any day. I wonder if it's a function of the first set of controls we grew up with? FYI There's an MSX reddit that's looking for members and discussion. http://www.reddit.com/r/msx http://www.reddit.com/r/msx
  - tluyben2 15y ago
    I guess it does have something to do with the first controller. My first controller was keyboard, and I like that still more than a d-pad, however I like joysticks a lot more. After years of keyboard only (no mouse back then), it took me a while to get used to joysticks, but once that happened, I really never had a better experience. I do notice something about how people use joysticks verses pads; people assume you are supposed to hold them in your hand. For joysticks that's a really miserable way of playing. You are at your best with a joystick standing on a flat, strong surface, using your right hand (if you are right handed) to steer and left index finger to fire. All other methods, like people firing with their right hand thumb on the top of the stick, are quite worthless. By that I mean that you are much (!) more flexible and faster using the 2 hands and not using your thumbs; your arms and fingers can keep up pounding the buttons without any strain feeling, while your thumbs give out fast. Just my experience. Thanks for the Reddit; heading over there right now :)
rbanffy 15y ago
Well... I keep a couple 8-bit computers in my interesting computer collection and, at least for me, the games those machines are great fun. Droll, Pac-man, River Raid, Moon Patrol, Choplifter... To say nothing about solving programming problems with BASIC on an 8-bit computer: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=pt&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dieblinkenlights.com%2Fblog_pt%2Fa-provinha-do-gdd-em-basic-para-micros-de-8-bits http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&h... (sorry for the translation - I wrote that one in Portuguese)
bane 15y ago
IMO Super Mario Brothers on the NES is the oldest 'home' (console or PC) videogame that is still legitimately fun to play That's exactly one of the questions I'm trying to answer in the article. That last time I physically played an Odyssey I must have been 5 or 6 years old, so I wrote this looking for reviews by others, as well as other source material. Turns out that in this case, most modern gamers don't like the system. In the edited reviews they describe it in rather unflattering terms. But I linked to a behind the scenes video I managed to find from one of the reviews and the players, while going completely off script and not really playing the rules of the various games, had what appears to be an outrageously good time with the system. That combined with the video from the Smithsonian and the legacy of how much the Odyssey just got dead right with respect to defining a gaming console is what made me give the system rather than individual games such a high score. Individually, I have to agree with you, there are many many old games that I loved as a kid that simply aren't fun today. I'm trying to suss out exactly where that line is and what defines it.
iuguy 15y ago
I'd say the Atari 2600 was probably the first (in my experience) home games console with games that are legitimately fun to play. Games like Combat, Air/Sea battle and Snoopy and the Red Baron were great games on the 2600. I'm not saying all the 2600 games were great, nor that it was technically better than the NES, but the core ability was there around the time of the 2600.
- georgemcbay 15y ago
  "Games like Combat, Air/Sea battle and Snoopy and the Red Baron were great games on the 2600." I don't disagree that those were great games. But I don't think they are great games (today), which is the difference I was trying to get at. Super Mario Brothers was a great game, and IMO is still a great game when I play it. All the old 2600 games that I played for hours and hours and had great fun with back in the very late 70s/early 80s were great when I played them then, but they are not actually fun for me to go back and play now... the core game mechanics of that era can be tweaked to be fun but the originals are still just too raw or repetitive to be fun IMO. eg. I really liked the Pac Man Championship Edition game that came out a few years ago though I don't really enjoy playing the original Pac Man much these days. Obviously there is some subjective bias here and each individual's views on this are probably colored by how much gaming they've done in the intermediate years, etc.
  - iuguy 15y ago
    I see where you're coming from, but I still occasionally play Red Baron, Pitfall and Combat on emulators. Crystal Castles for me was another good one on Atari 2600, but I think this was after Super Mario Bros. I agree that it's a largely subjective thing, and I would say Super Mario Bros 3 is a great game, SMB 1 is a good (and clearly game changing if you'll pardon the pun) game. Donkey Kong is another example from earlier, but I won't pretend that it was a good port to the 2600 that stands the test of time. I also see your point about games that were good then versus now, but I have to say that Pong was only good because there wasn't anything else around. Space invaders, Galaxian and co are still playable today. Still, endless examples and counterexamples abound and there'll never be a definitive conclusion for the reasons you mentioned. Still, it's good to take a trip down memory lane now and again. Out of interest, what was your favourite Mario game of all time, and how did it compare to SMB1?

wazoox 15y ago

I beg to disagree. I still have my faithful 2600, and many games are still entertaining : Ms. PacMan, Phoenix, Enduro... In fact they match quite closely the current trend for simple, easy to grasp games that you play for 15 minutes once in a while.

tluyben2 15y ago

Big difference I find between playing modern games or playing these old games is this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/The_Arcade_Turbo_Joystick.jpg/200px-The_Arcade_Turbo_Joystick.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/The... . And for me it makes all the difference; I find controls on most modern systems wonky and hard to use for a whole group of games (notably games with a lot of action like shmups). I tried a bunch of 'pc' joysticks and they all seem to need 6000 buttons like http://images.gizmag.com/hero/x-arcade-dual-joystick.jpg http://images.gizmag.com/hero/x-arcade-dual-joystick.jpg (which is a sure proof the game that needs that is flawed anyway) and I pull the actual stick right off (on these kinds; http://www.techgadgets.in/images/genius-metalstrike-ff-joystick.jpg http://www.techgadgets.in/images/genius-metalstrike-ff-joyst...) during a serious action game. The PS1..3 and WII controls are not really interesting either; during Gradius V on PS2 I always think I have leprosy in my fingers; how can you whirl around masses of bullets coming at you, enemies trying to bump into you and keeping outside of the boss lasers with those tiny buttons. Sure after practicing 1000x you'll manage and I can do it still (haven't played it for years), but with a decent joystick I can still manage to play those game round without dying, while this is kind of impossible with these dingy pads. Or maybe that's just me. This makes me get back to my systems in the attic (MSX-2 & Amiga) when I want to play a game; I made plugs on my old NES + PS1 to connect the Arcade joystick. I didn't manage that with the others yet, so I find myself playing on the old machines. No rose tinted glasses; just less of a frustration to play.

bane 15y ago
Funny you mention joysticks vs. modern controls. I find that I love d-pad like controls, but loath joysticks. I find I have more fun even with older games if I play them with a d-pad. However, I almost can't stand analog sticks and would take a proper joystick over one any day. I wonder if it's a function of the first set of controls we grew up with? FYI There's an MSX reddit that's looking for members and discussion. http://www.reddit.com/r/msx http://www.reddit.com/r/msx
- tluyben2 15y ago
  I guess it does have something to do with the first controller. My first controller was keyboard, and I like that still more than a d-pad, however I like joysticks a lot more. After years of keyboard only (no mouse back then), it took me a while to get used to joysticks, but once that happened, I really never had a better experience. I do notice something about how people use joysticks verses pads; people assume you are supposed to hold them in your hand. For joysticks that's a really miserable way of playing. You are at your best with a joystick standing on a flat, strong surface, using your right hand (if you are right handed) to steer and left index finger to fire. All other methods, like people firing with their right hand thumb on the top of the stick, are quite worthless. By that I mean that you are much (!) more flexible and faster using the 2 hands and not using your thumbs; your arms and fingers can keep up pounding the buttons without any strain feeling, while your thumbs give out fast. Just my experience. Thanks for the Reddit; heading over there right now :)

rbanffy 15y ago

Well... I keep a couple 8-bit computers in my interesting computer collection and, at least for me, the games those machines are great fun. Droll, Pac-man, River Raid, Moon Patrol, Choplifter... To say nothing about solving programming problems with BASIC on an 8-bit computer: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=pt&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dieblinkenlights.com%2Fblog_pt%2Fa-provinha-do-gdd-em-basic-para-micros-de-8-bits http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&h... (sorry for the translation - I wrote that one in Portuguese)

bane 15y ago

IMO Super Mario Brothers on the NES is the oldest 'home' (console or PC) videogame that is still legitimately fun to play That's exactly one of the questions I'm trying to answer in the article. That last time I physically played an Odyssey I must have been 5 or 6 years old, so I wrote this looking for reviews by others, as well as other source material. Turns out that in this case, most modern gamers don't like the system. In the edited reviews they describe it in rather unflattering terms. But I linked to a behind the scenes video I managed to find from one of the reviews and the players, while going completely off script and not really playing the rules of the various games, had what appears to be an outrageously good time with the system. That combined with the video from the Smithsonian and the legacy of how much the Odyssey just got dead right with respect to defining a gaming console is what made me give the system rather than individual games such a high score. Individually, I have to agree with you, there are many many old games that I loved as a kid that simply aren't fun today. I'm trying to suss out exactly where that line is and what defines it.

iuguy 15y ago

I'd say the Atari 2600 was probably the first (in my experience) home games console with games that are legitimately fun to play. Games like Combat, Air/Sea battle and Snoopy and the Red Baron were great games on the 2600. I'm not saying all the 2600 games were great, nor that it was technically better than the NES, but the core ability was there around the time of the 2600.

georgemcbay 15y ago
"Games like Combat, Air/Sea battle and Snoopy and the Red Baron were great games on the 2600." I don't disagree that those were great games. But I don't think they are great games (today), which is the difference I was trying to get at. Super Mario Brothers was a great game, and IMO is still a great game when I play it. All the old 2600 games that I played for hours and hours and had great fun with back in the very late 70s/early 80s were great when I played them then, but they are not actually fun for me to go back and play now... the core game mechanics of that era can be tweaked to be fun but the originals are still just too raw or repetitive to be fun IMO. eg. I really liked the Pac Man Championship Edition game that came out a few years ago though I don't really enjoy playing the original Pac Man much these days. Obviously there is some subjective bias here and each individual's views on this are probably colored by how much gaming they've done in the intermediate years, etc.
- iuguy 15y ago
  I see where you're coming from, but I still occasionally play Red Baron, Pitfall and Combat on emulators. Crystal Castles for me was another good one on Atari 2600, but I think this was after Super Mario Bros. I agree that it's a largely subjective thing, and I would say Super Mario Bros 3 is a great game, SMB 1 is a good (and clearly game changing if you'll pardon the pun) game. Donkey Kong is another example from earlier, but I won't pretend that it was a good port to the 2600 that stands the test of time. I also see your point about games that were good then versus now, but I have to say that Pong was only good because there wasn't anything else around. Space invaders, Galaxian and co are still playable today. Still, endless examples and counterexamples abound and there'll never be a definitive conclusion for the reasons you mentioned. Still, it's good to take a trip down memory lane now and again. Out of interest, what was your favourite Mario game of all time, and how did it compare to SMB1?