5 ms·

It looks to me as if the Republican party is broadly still Trump's: he has a powerful voice and as far as I am aware very few Republican politicians have disavo

by gmac 5y ago

It looks to me as if the Republican party is broadly still Trump's: he has a powerful voice and as far as I am aware very few Republican politicians have disavowed him. Can you tell me what important nuance I am lacking here? Perhaps you are saying: supporting Republicans doesn't necessarily mean supporting Trump and his allies — but in practical terms, surely it does? It's obviously difficult to be certain of which information is reliable and which information is not. In my view, the discourse has shifted rightwards such that there aren't any longer any genuinely left-leaning sources in the mainstream media. The Guardian, the NYT, CNN and suchlike all look solidly centrist to me. The Guardian piece I linked is by an academic, so I have a bit more faith than usual that it will be an intelligent and independent viewpoint. But that Guardian piece is not the only thing I'm relying on, and the events of 6 January are not the only thing I'm relying on either. In particular, there appears to be gerrymandering, voter suppression, and worse on the Republican side [1]. I'm not aware of Democratic attempts to undermine the democratic system to any similar degree, but perhaps you can point me to some? [1] e.g. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/25/podcasts/transcript-ezra-klein-interviews-ari-berman.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/25/podcasts/transcript-ezra-...

twofornone 5y ago
I would challenge you to find a single article reporting on any of Trump's speeches, actions, or policies in a positive light from any of the "centrist" outlets that you posted. In fact I would challenge you to find a single topic that was reported on differently by any of those sources. The fact that our primary media outlets consistently report nearly identical information and spin on every story is a glaring indication of political bias. And apparently it is enough to convince millions of viewers that these issues are cut and dry; that republicans are obviously evil, are the only ones engaged in gerrymandering, that the left would never support authoritarian pursuits of power, etc. I could link you dozens of articles, but I would be downvoted for posting "right wing propaganda". Meanwhile approximately 70MM people voted for Trump a second time, but the fact that none of our major outlets (even Fox was not friendly to trump) represent the views of these people is fine, because they're all ignorant, racist rednecks, right?
- Jordrok 5y ago
  > I would challenge you to find a single article reporting on any of Trump's speeches, actions, or policies in a positive light from any of the "centrist" outlets that you posted. And why would they, when none of his speeches, actions, or policies ever accomplished anything positive for anyone other than his hardcore rightwing base? That's not bias, it's just calling a spade a spade.
  - twofornone 5y ago
    How do you not see that your thinking is the problem? Are you really so arrogant as to blindly write off the political opinions of half the country? Just because the media you consume tells you to do so? Don't you understand that getting your news exclusively from biased sources would make it falsely seem as though they are giving you the whole picture so long as you simply do not seek out alternative perspectives? Do you genuinely believe that right leaning sources can only report positively on Republicans if they print lies?
    - Jordrok 5y ago
      > How do you not see that your thinking is the problem? I would ask you the same question. Are you so arrogant to assume that the only reason I haven't come around to your way of thinking is because I merely haven't seen the same information that you have? That the only reason why someone wouldn't be a conservative is because they've been brainwashed by the big bad mainstream media? Every time I have tried to dive into the Conservative-leaning mediasphere to make sure that there isn't some hidden truth I've been missing, I come away more certain than ever that that is not the case. And believe me, I've tried. Why do you assume that I haven't, simply because I still disagree with you? You are not entitled to having your political beliefs validated by everyone you meet.
jablongo 5y ago
> In particular, there appears to be gerrymandering, voter suppression, and worse on the Republican side [1]. I'm not aware of Democratic attempts to undermine the democratic system to any similar degree, but perhaps you can point me to some? Certain Dem candidates also undermine the democratic process when they make false claims about voter suppression. For example "voter purges" are reported on as if they are voter suppression, but in fact they are routine list-maintenance carried out by state administrators to remove voters who have deceased or moved out of a jurisdiction. Stacy Abrams made unfounded claims that she lost due to some foul play / voter suppression, but this was not the case, she simply lost. That said, undermining democracy is much more prevalent on the R side.

by gmac 5y ago

twofornone 5y ago

I would challenge you to find a single article reporting on any of Trump's speeches, actions, or policies in a positive light from any of the "centrist" outlets that you posted. In fact I would challenge you to find a single topic that was reported on differently by any of those sources. The fact that our primary media outlets consistently report nearly identical information and spin on every story is a glaring indication of political bias. And apparently it is enough to convince millions of viewers that these issues are cut and dry; that republicans are obviously evil, are the only ones engaged in gerrymandering, that the left would never support authoritarian pursuits of power, etc. I could link you dozens of articles, but I would be downvoted for posting "right wing propaganda". Meanwhile approximately 70MM people voted for Trump a second time, but the fact that none of our major outlets (even Fox was not friendly to trump) represent the views of these people is fine, because they're all ignorant, racist rednecks, right?

Jordrok 5y ago
> I would challenge you to find a single article reporting on any of Trump's speeches, actions, or policies in a positive light from any of the "centrist" outlets that you posted. And why would they, when none of his speeches, actions, or policies ever accomplished anything positive for anyone other than his hardcore rightwing base? That's not bias, it's just calling a spade a spade.
- twofornone 5y ago
  How do you not see that your thinking is the problem? Are you really so arrogant as to blindly write off the political opinions of half the country? Just because the media you consume tells you to do so? Don't you understand that getting your news exclusively from biased sources would make it falsely seem as though they are giving you the whole picture so long as you simply do not seek out alternative perspectives? Do you genuinely believe that right leaning sources can only report positively on Republicans if they print lies?
  - Jordrok 5y ago
    > How do you not see that your thinking is the problem? I would ask you the same question. Are you so arrogant to assume that the only reason I haven't come around to your way of thinking is because I merely haven't seen the same information that you have? That the only reason why someone wouldn't be a conservative is because they've been brainwashed by the big bad mainstream media? Every time I have tried to dive into the Conservative-leaning mediasphere to make sure that there isn't some hidden truth I've been missing, I come away more certain than ever that that is not the case. And believe me, I've tried. Why do you assume that I haven't, simply because I still disagree with you? You are not entitled to having your political beliefs validated by everyone you meet.

jablongo 5y ago

> In particular, there appears to be gerrymandering, voter suppression, and worse on the Republican side [1]. I'm not aware of Democratic attempts to undermine the democratic system to any similar degree, but perhaps you can point me to some? Certain Dem candidates also undermine the democratic process when they make false claims about voter suppression. For example "voter purges" are reported on as if they are voter suppression, but in fact they are routine list-maintenance carried out by state administrators to remove voters who have deceased or moved out of a jurisdiction. Stacy Abrams made unfounded claims that she lost due to some foul play / voter suppression, but this was not the case, she simply lost. That said, undermining democracy is much more prevalent on the R side.