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Definitely not an expert in this field, but don't his solutions come off as a tad naive? Get the military to do this, get the railways to do that, build a tempo

Definitely not an expert in this field, but don't his solutions come off as a tad naive? Get the military to do this, get the railways to do that, build a temporary 500 acre yard, get ships to carry off containers somewhere. Surely he must understand that such large undertakings will have many consequences and cannot be "done" just like that. The solutions also seem to be sort of a band-aid, to create a temporary buffer until the situation somehow resolves on its own. But doesn't that only delay the inevitable as the buffers fill up again and they are left to deal with even greater number of empty containers, when the fundamental problem seems to be that nobody wants empty containers in the first place? It feels like there is some missing incentive in the system somewhere, to get empty containers go to where they are needed, but businesses operating with their pre-pandemic, highly optimized models are slow to adapt. The biggest question of all though is that, is the shipping crisis even that big an issue to warrant such dramatic reactions? If indeed and there is political will to tackle it, this might better channeled to ramp up local industries to fill the gaps and reduce dependency on shipping in the first place. There is no better time to do it. The pandemic has shown clearly the risks of a globally coupled economy, and the shipping crisis is nothing compared to the environmental crisis that is on its way. But you wouldn't catch the owner of a shipping company say that.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
gamblor956 5y ago
The LA Times covered this is an article about his tweets, but in a nutshell: the problem is the shipping companies. They wouldn't pick up empty containers coming back to the ports, so the containers were stuck in the container storage yards outside the ports. Because these storage yards were full, trucking companies couldn't pick up new (full) containers with rigs on location; they had to bring in new rigs. But their aren't enough drivers right now due to COVID and trucking being a generally crappy low-paying job. The first incentive implemented was to start fining the shipping companies for sitting on their (full) containers. However, this is an indirect incentive, intended to motivate the shipping companies to solve the container lifecycle problem in a market-efficient manner. If this incentive doesn't work, the next incentive will more directly address the problem: shipping companies will be fined for empty containers left at the container storage facilities.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  But why don't the shipping companies want to pick up containers? Was this always the case, or what changed?
  - colinmhayes 5y ago
    It takes time to load them, and shipping rates from Asia to the US are at an all time high, so they want to hurry back.
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      Is it speculation or fact that the ships are heading back empty?
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - Kliment 5y ago
        Not empty, but significantly below what they could carry.
  - Kliment 5y ago
    They have super high value cargo sitting at the remote port wanting to be moved. Loading empties takes time and pays little, so they profit optimize by not waiting for them to be loaded, and instead abandon them to clog the port so they can get out a few hours earlier and do their next run faster.
    - jve 5y ago
      ... and get clogged themselves next time they come in?
      - s1artibartfast 5y ago
        It could be a tragedy of the commons effect. If one company alone were to max out on empties, the port would still be clogged.
hammeiam 5y ago
To summarize: is the shipping crisis even that big an issue this might better channeled to ramp up local industries to fill the gaps don't his solutions come off as a tad naive?
avs733 5y ago
Of course it’s naive. He observed problems and then offered solutions to the observed problems. His diagnosis was “too many containers” Twitter does not lend itself to failure analysis techniques like five whys, but I feel like even one or two whys would have been helpful here Why is there a back up in the port? Too many empty containers. Why are there too many empty containers? …the answer to that is not a lack of storage space it’s about why the containers aren’t getting picked up/taken back
- bkor 5y ago
  If the terminal is really slow the first thing a shipping like will leave behind is empty containers. US terminals are dead slow and often do not work 24/7. Their union is unique, it seems to be a show of power instead of making sensible decisions. There's a huge backlog of vessels that need to be handled. Usually you have space on the vessel to bring back the empties, normally the reason not to do that is if it takes too much time to bring them on board (terminal is slow or vessel was late). If it was due to too many vessels it could've been solved by sending a vessel purely for empties. But there's a huge backlog in vessels to be handled. Productivity increases usually take quite a while to materialize.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

gamblor956 5y ago

The LA Times covered this is an article about his tweets, but in a nutshell: the problem is the shipping companies. They wouldn't pick up empty containers coming back to the ports, so the containers were stuck in the container storage yards outside the ports. Because these storage yards were full, trucking companies couldn't pick up new (full) containers with rigs on location; they had to bring in new rigs. But their aren't enough drivers right now due to COVID and trucking being a generally crappy low-paying job. The first incentive implemented was to start fining the shipping companies for sitting on their (full) containers. However, this is an indirect incentive, intended to motivate the shipping companies to solve the container lifecycle problem in a market-efficient manner. If this incentive doesn't work, the next incentive will more directly address the problem: shipping companies will be fined for empty containers left at the container storage facilities.

s1artibartfast 5y ago
But why don't the shipping companies want to pick up containers? Was this always the case, or what changed?
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  It takes time to load them, and shipping rates from Asia to the US are at an all time high, so they want to hurry back.
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    Is it speculation or fact that the ships are heading back empty?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - Kliment 5y ago
      Not empty, but significantly below what they could carry.
- Kliment 5y ago
  They have super high value cargo sitting at the remote port wanting to be moved. Loading empties takes time and pays little, so they profit optimize by not waiting for them to be loaded, and instead abandon them to clog the port so they can get out a few hours earlier and do their next run faster.
  - jve 5y ago
    ... and get clogged themselves next time they come in?
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      It could be a tragedy of the commons effect. If one company alone were to max out on empties, the port would still be clogged.

hammeiam 5y ago

To summarize: is the shipping crisis even that big an issue this might better channeled to ramp up local industries to fill the gaps don't his solutions come off as a tad naive?

avs733 5y ago

Of course it’s naive. He observed problems and then offered solutions to the observed problems. His diagnosis was “too many containers” Twitter does not lend itself to failure analysis techniques like five whys, but I feel like even one or two whys would have been helpful here Why is there a back up in the port? Too many empty containers. Why are there too many empty containers? …the answer to that is not a lack of storage space it’s about why the containers aren’t getting picked up/taken back

bkor 5y ago
If the terminal is really slow the first thing a shipping like will leave behind is empty containers. US terminals are dead slow and often do not work 24/7. Their union is unique, it seems to be a show of power instead of making sensible decisions. There's a huge backlog of vessels that need to be handled. Usually you have space on the vessel to bring back the empties, normally the reason not to do that is if it takes too much time to bring them on board (terminal is slow or vessel was late). If it was due to too many vessels it could've been solved by sending a vessel purely for empties. But there's a huge backlog in vessels to be handled. Productivity increases usually take quite a while to materialize.