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California has roving black-outs [0], New Jersey can't have clean water [1], New York subways are disgusting. [2] But I'm told over and over again: "you get wh

California has roving black-outs [0], New Jersey can't have clean water [1], New York subways are disgusting. [2] But I'm told over and over again: "you get what you pay for." I just don't believe it anymore. Per your bit about roads, many have tried to decipher why the US has such expensive road construction and its not at all clear. We're a very bizarre outlier. It's more than just being affluent. [3,4] I'm venting a bit but its tragic that such a rich nation can't properly build anything anymore. Heck, Flint Michigan got hundreds of millions of dollars _and still doesn't have clean water_. [5] Most bizarre to me is that nobody seems that interested in where the money goes. NYC spent $1.25 billion on a mental health outreach program that has had no publicly visible effects or milestones. [6] It was made permanent this year. [7] I'm told over and over again that the problem is "not enough money" but where the hell is it going to in the first place? Why does nobody care to answer this question? [0]: https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2020/08/18/california-has-first-rolling-blackouts-in-19-years-and-everyone-faces-blame-1309757 https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2020/08/18/... [1]: https://patch.com/new-jersey/newbrunswick/high-pfoa-levels-middlesex-co-water-get-full-story https://patch.com/new-jersey/newbrunswick/high-pfoa-levels-m... [2]: https://www.amny.com/transit/nyc-subway-stations-garbage-dumps-fail-to-meet-cleaning-standards-according-to-audit-1.10437148/ https://www.amny.com/transit/nyc-subway-stations-garbage-dum... [3]: https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2021/08/why-didnt-the-2009-recovery-act-improve-the-nations-highways-and-bridges.html https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2021/08/wh... [4]: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/07/why-we-cant-figure-out-why-infrastructure-is-so-expensive.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/07/why-we-cant-figure-o... [5]: https://www.npr.org/2019/04/25/717104335/5-years-after-flints-crisis-began-is-the-water-safe https://www.npr.org/2019/04/25/717104335/5-years-after-flint... [6]: https://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/too-much-money-chirlane-mccrays-hands-thrivenyc https://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/too-much-money-chir... [7]: https://nypost.com/2021/05/06/de-blasio-rebrands-wifes-1b-thrivenyc-makes-program-permanent/ https://nypost.com/2021/05/06/de-blasio-rebrands-wifes-1b-th...

Hermitian909 5y ago
I'm having trouble tracking it down, but a few years ago congress set up an investigation into why costs are high. The investigation, which basically consisted of calling up various experts, asking them to talk for free, and compiling what they said, reported that the issue was so complicated it needed a better funded study. To my knowledge, that better funded study has not occurred. At a very broad I recall some of the items identified were: - Illegal collusion between contractors capable of expensive jobs - Illegal collusion between contractors and consultants hired by cities to help pick winning bids - No expertise in government due to cutbacks, so no ability to vet a proposal or understand the progress made (see above) - No accountability in government - No accountability for contractors in in contracts - Poorly thought out legislated process on choosing bidders - Inefficiencies in mandated working conditions (think multiple people sitting around watching a hole) - Government/private enterprise corruption These are all over simplified high level points. The dynamics here get quite complex. For example, local government often signs a contract with a local contractor wherein they are able to put in stop work orders as desired without owing payment for the time. This is very expensive for the contractors, they must pay to move heavy machinery to another job or wait while paying their workers. Delays can add millions in cost/lost revenue for the contractor. The contractor thus has to drastically increase prices to hedge against these delays. These issue touch every level of government: city, county, state, and federal. Sadly we no longer have a functional body politic capable of addressing issues of that scale.
- bingohbangoh 5y ago
  Thanks for the long reply! Money laundering through road construction is apparently _very popular_ but I can't see what changed and why its not as popular abroad. Shouldn't the same conditions for this exist elsewhere? Somebody direct me to a few papers on the subject but I frankly don't have the time to read them.
  - Hermitian909 5y ago
    Hard to say, but I can at least speak to contributions from a lack of government expertise mixed with private corruption. I've seen this in my own local government. Generally no one employed by the city knows how to look at an expense report from a construction job and check it for plausibility; this allows some outrageous pricing for things like a few tons of bricks. Sometimes they'll hire a consultant to check the books, but often that consultant is chummy with the contractor. In other countries where government is trusted a bit more, it's much more normal to have an engineer and a construction project manager on staff to look at a report and tell you you're getting bilked.
gamblor956 5y ago
California had roving blackouts because the electric companies turned off power to customers so that it could disable electric equipment in wildfire-prone areas. The blackout you noted from last year was the first one in two decades related to supply issues, and the 2020 supply issues were due to power companies deliberately delaying starting up gas-firing plants after the sun went down in an effort to blame renewables for the problem. Notably, after the CPUC threatened fines, the supply-related blackouts didn't happen again.
- HWR_14 5y ago
  The first part of your statement is "California has roving blackouts because transmission equipment isn't being upgraded to prevent fires". I don't think it's the condemnation avoider you think it is.
1cvmask 5y ago
There are no costs to such cost overruns. Most of those politicians get reelected by the voters. And the contractor/consultant beneficiaries of the cost overruns fund those politicians and their campaigns.

Hermitian909 5y ago

I'm having trouble tracking it down, but a few years ago congress set up an investigation into why costs are high. The investigation, which basically consisted of calling up various experts, asking them to talk for free, and compiling what they said, reported that the issue was so complicated it needed a better funded study. To my knowledge, that better funded study has not occurred. At a very broad I recall some of the items identified were: - Illegal collusion between contractors capable of expensive jobs - Illegal collusion between contractors and consultants hired by cities to help pick winning bids - No expertise in government due to cutbacks, so no ability to vet a proposal or understand the progress made (see above) - No accountability in government - No accountability for contractors in in contracts - Poorly thought out legislated process on choosing bidders - Inefficiencies in mandated working conditions (think multiple people sitting around watching a hole) - Government/private enterprise corruption These are all over simplified high level points. The dynamics here get quite complex. For example, local government often signs a contract with a local contractor wherein they are able to put in stop work orders as desired without owing payment for the time. This is very expensive for the contractors, they must pay to move heavy machinery to another job or wait while paying their workers. Delays can add millions in cost/lost revenue for the contractor. The contractor thus has to drastically increase prices to hedge against these delays. These issue touch every level of government: city, county, state, and federal. Sadly we no longer have a functional body politic capable of addressing issues of that scale.

bingohbangoh 5y ago
Thanks for the long reply! Money laundering through road construction is apparently _very popular_ but I can't see what changed and why its not as popular abroad. Shouldn't the same conditions for this exist elsewhere? Somebody direct me to a few papers on the subject but I frankly don't have the time to read them.
- Hermitian909 5y ago
  Hard to say, but I can at least speak to contributions from a lack of government expertise mixed with private corruption. I've seen this in my own local government. Generally no one employed by the city knows how to look at an expense report from a construction job and check it for plausibility; this allows some outrageous pricing for things like a few tons of bricks. Sometimes they'll hire a consultant to check the books, but often that consultant is chummy with the contractor. In other countries where government is trusted a bit more, it's much more normal to have an engineer and a construction project manager on staff to look at a report and tell you you're getting bilked.

gamblor956 5y ago

California had roving blackouts because the electric companies turned off power to customers so that it could disable electric equipment in wildfire-prone areas. The blackout you noted from last year was the first one in two decades related to supply issues, and the 2020 supply issues were due to power companies deliberately delaying starting up gas-firing plants after the sun went down in an effort to blame renewables for the problem. Notably, after the CPUC threatened fines, the supply-related blackouts didn't happen again.

HWR_14 5y ago
The first part of your statement is "California has roving blackouts because transmission equipment isn't being upgraded to prevent fires". I don't think it's the condemnation avoider you think it is.

1cvmask 5y ago

There are no costs to such cost overruns. Most of those politicians get reelected by the voters. And the contractor/consultant beneficiaries of the cost overruns fund those politicians and their campaigns.