3 ms·

If you can't buy parts from 3rd parties e.g. you can't source chips or connectors etc. on Mouser, then I can't see how this is much different from Apple. Just b

If you can't buy parts from 3rd parties e.g. you can't source chips or connectors etc. on Mouser, then I can't see how this is much different from Apple. Just because manufacturer sells parts themselves (thus avoiding spending money on good repair service), probably won't save you much money considering you will have to spend your own time and make effort to fix it yourself. Nonetheless, any move into more repair friendly product is welcome.

jaywalk 5y ago
Framework's hardware is entirely open source (https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards) so you can buy parts from any third-party that wants to produce them.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  That just reminds me of Alienware’s open modular GPU cards or the open nanoSD cards from Huawei, both of which are open and nobody wants to make or use in their own products. It’s open but there isn’t any incentive for anyone else to make some niche parts for a single laptop brand.
- liminalsunset 5y ago
  They have open sourced a development toolkit for making expansion card modules but the motherboard itself is not open source. You can, however get schematics if you are a "repair shop", under NDA, however they define that.
  - userbinator 5y ago
    I hope the schematics leak, just like they do for many other laptops.
- varispeed 5y ago
  Entirely? That's just for expansions which are essentially USB-C dongles.
GhettoComputers 5y ago
They do have good repair as well. It saves you a ton of money because the devices are so common and the parts are cheap, I don’t go to Lenovo.com, I buy some junk devices and take the parts off them. You’re stating effort like it’s hard to unscrew a laptop and seat in a new part, which you’ll need to do for framework too.
canadaduane 5y ago
I agree with your point, but I think it slightly misses the potential and (I believe) intent of Framework: they have opened their design specs and encouraged even DIY participants, making it possible for a cultural movement of innovation & right-to-repair to exist. It reminds me of revered machines like the Commodore 64 that didn't just create hardware (although they did that very well)--they enabled social clubs, the demoscene, and a many hobby programmers and hardware hackers who went on to become professionals.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  Opening them doesn’t mean it’ll be taken up. Everyone had a commandore so there was enthusiasm for it. This is another generic very niche laptop that has no defining benefits over others and so will find it hard to convince anyone to make some niche parts that doesn’t have a large install base.
  - throwaway946513 5y ago
    "Very niche laptop" It's largely a laptop aimed at being a general computer, just like a Dell or HP. With two exceptions: - Freedom of choice over operating system - Freedom of choice over repair components From the looks of it, there doesn't appear to be much of a detriment to it over other laptops.
    - GhettoComputers 5y ago
      The parts are niche, they don’t work anywhere else. Nobody will touch making niche parts for repairing one with a niche marketshare. You don't expect anyone to take up custom parts to a WilyFox phone even though its a much larger marketshare device do you? So why do you think they will for this laptop nobody has? Yes, it’s a general computer, nothing unique in computing to choose it over the other. Dell and HP have plenty of aftermarket parts and don’t limit my OS either. They start at $999 and the base is 8GB, 256GB SSD, with an i5 and you need to wait with a deposit and it only has 1 year of warranty with no strong aftermarket products. None of these are incentivizing for performance, for repairable, or for cost.

jaywalk 5y ago

Framework's hardware is entirely open source (https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards) so you can buy parts from any third-party that wants to produce them.

GhettoComputers 5y ago
That just reminds me of Alienware’s open modular GPU cards or the open nanoSD cards from Huawei, both of which are open and nobody wants to make or use in their own products. It’s open but there isn’t any incentive for anyone else to make some niche parts for a single laptop brand.
liminalsunset 5y ago
They have open sourced a development toolkit for making expansion card modules but the motherboard itself is not open source. You can, however get schematics if you are a "repair shop", under NDA, however they define that.
- userbinator 5y ago
  I hope the schematics leak, just like they do for many other laptops.
varispeed 5y ago
Entirely? That's just for expansions which are essentially USB-C dongles.

GhettoComputers 5y ago

They do have good repair as well. It saves you a ton of money because the devices are so common and the parts are cheap, I don’t go to Lenovo.com, I buy some junk devices and take the parts off them. You’re stating effort like it’s hard to unscrew a laptop and seat in a new part, which you’ll need to do for framework too.

canadaduane 5y ago

I agree with your point, but I think it slightly misses the potential and (I believe) intent of Framework: they have opened their design specs and encouraged even DIY participants, making it possible for a cultural movement of innovation & right-to-repair to exist. It reminds me of revered machines like the Commodore 64 that didn't just create hardware (although they did that very well)--they enabled social clubs, the demoscene, and a many hobby programmers and hardware hackers who went on to become professionals.

GhettoComputers 5y ago
Opening them doesn’t mean it’ll be taken up. Everyone had a commandore so there was enthusiasm for it. This is another generic very niche laptop that has no defining benefits over others and so will find it hard to convince anyone to make some niche parts that doesn’t have a large install base.
- throwaway946513 5y ago
  "Very niche laptop" It's largely a laptop aimed at being a general computer, just like a Dell or HP. With two exceptions: - Freedom of choice over operating system - Freedom of choice over repair components From the looks of it, there doesn't appear to be much of a detriment to it over other laptops.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    The parts are niche, they don’t work anywhere else. Nobody will touch making niche parts for repairing one with a niche marketshare. You don't expect anyone to take up custom parts to a WilyFox phone even though its a much larger marketshare device do you? So why do you think they will for this laptop nobody has? Yes, it’s a general computer, nothing unique in computing to choose it over the other. Dell and HP have plenty of aftermarket parts and don’t limit my OS either. They start at $999 and the base is 8GB, 256GB SSD, with an i5 and you need to wait with a deposit and it only has 1 year of warranty with no strong aftermarket products. None of these are incentivizing for performance, for repairable, or for cost.