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Most technical developments only unconsciously reflect their social contexts. And in most cases those are the greater needs of corporations. E.g. C and Javasc

Most technical developments only unconsciously reflect their social contexts. And in most cases those are the greater needs of corporations. E.g. C and Javascript. Rust is deliberate about tying its social context to its technical development. Much like open source, esp.the Linux kernel, used the social contract of legal licenses and information transmission to enable a cooperative world, except Rust foregrounds as a social movement and demands traction through technical superiority. It's an innovator in community standards. "You want quality code? You'll have to abide by our social rules." Its founders have read some philosophy. Similar to how every Linux install means less corporate power and less invasion of privacy, every Rust conquest such as this represents a threat to dissolve the entrenched hegemony of competition and individualism. See: https://www.rust-lang.org/policies/code-of-conduct https://www.rust-lang.org/policies/code-of-conduct

tayistay 5y ago
Can you ELI5 how the development of, say, C, reflects the needs of corporations? Does every linux install mean less corporate power when, e.g. AWS runs on linux? Can you explain what the rust code of conduct (which AFAICT can be summarized as "please be nice") has to do with competition and individualism? Can't I still be a competitive individual without being rude?
- chillingeffect 5y ago
  > Can you ELI5 how the development of, say, C, reflects the needs of corporations? Sure, thanks for being interested. Note that I'm not agreeing or disapproving with Rust or with you. It's merely that I'm responding to why someone asked why the Rust community feels compelled to proclaim these types of territorial expansions and why most people don't get it. I don't have time to ELY5, but you can start with C's inception at corporate-government behemoth AT&T and follow it to e.g. here: https://isocpp.org/wiki/faq/big-picture#standardization-committee https://isocpp.org/wiki/faq/big-picture#standardization-comm... >"Naturally, many (but not all) of these volunteers have day jobs focused on C++: They include compiler writers, tool builders, library writers, application builders, researchers, book authors, consultants, test-suite builders, and more. >Here is a very-partial list of some major organizations involved: Adobe, Apple, Boost, Bloomberg, EDG, Google, HP, IBM, Intel, Microsoft, Oracle, Red Hat." Contrast that with, say the Arduino/maker movement... when was the last time they proposed language and standard changes? Although both communities use C, one of them is blinking LEDs in young couples' living rooms and the other is flying helicopters to protect borders which requires massive investment and coordination across hostile, competitive, captialized entities. > Does every linux install mean less corporate power when, e.g. AWS runs on linux? No, not always absolutely everything is always completely absolute all the time, forever, but you can contrast AWS running Linux with AWS running Windows and see development they do under e.g. GPL license must be shared back to the community. > Can you explain what the rust code of conduct (which AFAICT can be summarized as "please be nice") has to do with competition and individualism? Can't I still be a competitive individual without being rude? It's helpful to them when outsiders glean superficial meanings from the conduct such as that. No offense: We all want to feel warm and fuzzy. It's what they don't say. Take a closer look: > Everyone is invited to discuss the proposal, to work toward a shared understanding of the tradeoffs. Though sometimes arduous, this community deliberation is Rust’s secret sauce for quality. Their values prevent geniuses like Stallman from going rogue and embarrassing them socially. This is their tradeoff for the excluding contributions of embarrassing wizards and why it's so valuable for them to capture technical territory. > We will exclude you from interaction if you insult, demean or harass anyone. They will accept an inferior development if it means they can keep their reputation pure. > Can't I still be a competitive individual without being rude? Yes you can, but that's the contrapositive of their Code. If you are rude, your competitive contributions are excluded. So it's not "please be nice." It's "if you're not nice, you're not a part of us." Since this makes it harder to get the best people, it's a victory when they're able to pull of large technical feats.

tayistay 5y ago

Can you ELI5 how the development of, say, C, reflects the needs of corporations? Does every linux install mean less corporate power when, e.g. AWS runs on linux? Can you explain what the rust code of conduct (which AFAICT can be summarized as "please be nice") has to do with competition and individualism? Can't I still be a competitive individual without being rude?

chillingeffect 5y ago
> Can you ELI5 how the development of, say, C, reflects the needs of corporations? Sure, thanks for being interested. Note that I'm not agreeing or disapproving with Rust or with you. It's merely that I'm responding to why someone asked why the Rust community feels compelled to proclaim these types of territorial expansions and why most people don't get it. I don't have time to ELY5, but you can start with C's inception at corporate-government behemoth AT&T and follow it to e.g. here: https://isocpp.org/wiki/faq/big-picture#standardization-committee https://isocpp.org/wiki/faq/big-picture#standardization-comm... >"Naturally, many (but not all) of these volunteers have day jobs focused on C++: They include compiler writers, tool builders, library writers, application builders, researchers, book authors, consultants, test-suite builders, and more. >Here is a very-partial list of some major organizations involved: Adobe, Apple, Boost, Bloomberg, EDG, Google, HP, IBM, Intel, Microsoft, Oracle, Red Hat." Contrast that with, say the Arduino/maker movement... when was the last time they proposed language and standard changes? Although both communities use C, one of them is blinking LEDs in young couples' living rooms and the other is flying helicopters to protect borders which requires massive investment and coordination across hostile, competitive, captialized entities. > Does every linux install mean less corporate power when, e.g. AWS runs on linux? No, not always absolutely everything is always completely absolute all the time, forever, but you can contrast AWS running Linux with AWS running Windows and see development they do under e.g. GPL license must be shared back to the community. > Can you explain what the rust code of conduct (which AFAICT can be summarized as "please be nice") has to do with competition and individualism? Can't I still be a competitive individual without being rude? It's helpful to them when outsiders glean superficial meanings from the conduct such as that. No offense: We all want to feel warm and fuzzy. It's what they don't say. Take a closer look: > Everyone is invited to discuss the proposal, to work toward a shared understanding of the tradeoffs. Though sometimes arduous, this community deliberation is Rust’s secret sauce for quality. Their values prevent geniuses like Stallman from going rogue and embarrassing them socially. This is their tradeoff for the excluding contributions of embarrassing wizards and why it's so valuable for them to capture technical territory. > We will exclude you from interaction if you insult, demean or harass anyone. They will accept an inferior development if it means they can keep their reputation pure. > Can't I still be a competitive individual without being rude? Yes you can, but that's the contrapositive of their Code. If you are rude, your competitive contributions are excluded. So it's not "please be nice." It's "if you're not nice, you're not a part of us." Since this makes it harder to get the best people, it's a victory when they're able to pull of large technical feats.