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It sounds like you stopped using Debian. Were you also a contributor and had trouble fixing these issues because of the governance issues described in the artic

It sounds like you stopped using Debian. Were you also a contributor and had trouble fixing these issues because of the governance issues described in the article?

egberts1 5y ago
precisely. and every six month, Id take a peek to see if RedHat employee or Debian maintainer fixed it. You cannot operate without systemd in Debian 11+. It’s now a REQUIRED “feature” and a veritable albatross around Debian’s neck for those serious server needs.
- andrewshadura 5y ago
  This is untrue, Debian can still be used with sysvinit + sysv-rc or openrc.
  - egberts1 5y ago
    but the systemd library is mandatory along with systemd and many services that. various services did not used to REQUIRE them but now do so. you just cannot unplug systemd 100% thereby contaminating the disk with useless stuff.
    - md8z 5y ago
      The systemd library is just another library on your system, it won't interfere with your init just to have it installed. If you could mention these services that require it, we could look at the services and see what needs to be done.
      - egberts1 5y ago
        try a couple of `ldd <binary-file>` and a couple of them requires systemd. cannot uninstall them.
        md8z 5y ago
        Yeah but that shouldn't affect your init system. Libsystemd is just a utility library, most of its functions don't require systemd, and the few that do are a no-op when systemd isn't present.
        egberts1 5y ago
        latent library should be removed lest they too become vulnerable.
        andrewshadura 5y ago
        libsystemd is trivial (it’s just about a dozen of short functions), so it’s very unlikely there’s security vulnerability in it.
        egberts1 5y ago
        LOL! Clearly, you do not appear to subscribe to the KISS principle much less ascribe to the security theatre of IT and cybersecurity.
  - kelnos 5y ago
    Are you sure? I know this is the case for Debian buster (I am using sysvinit on buster on a low-RAM NAS), but on bullseye on my laptop, if I try to install sysvinit & sysv-rc, it wants to remove things like network-manager and lightdm. Installing openrc doesn't do that, but also doesn't remove any systemd components, so unclear what would happen if I tried to do that.

It sounds like you stopped using Debian. Were you also a contributor and had trouble fixing these issues because of the governance issues described in the article?

egberts1 5y ago

precisely. and every six month, Id take a peek to see if RedHat employee or Debian maintainer fixed it. You cannot operate without systemd in Debian 11+. It’s now a REQUIRED “feature” and a veritable albatross around Debian’s neck for those serious server needs.

andrewshadura 5y ago
This is untrue, Debian can still be used with sysvinit + sysv-rc or openrc.
- egberts1 5y ago
  but the systemd library is mandatory along with systemd and many services that. various services did not used to REQUIRE them but now do so. you just cannot unplug systemd 100% thereby contaminating the disk with useless stuff.
  - md8z 5y ago
    The systemd library is just another library on your system, it won't interfere with your init just to have it installed. If you could mention these services that require it, we could look at the services and see what needs to be done.
    - egberts1 5y ago
      try a couple of `ldd <binary-file>` and a couple of them requires systemd. cannot uninstall them.
      - md8z 5y ago
        Yeah but that shouldn't affect your init system. Libsystemd is just a utility library, most of its functions don't require systemd, and the few that do are a no-op when systemd isn't present.
        egberts1 5y ago
        latent library should be removed lest they too become vulnerable.
        andrewshadura 5y ago
        libsystemd is trivial (it’s just about a dozen of short functions), so it’s very unlikely there’s security vulnerability in it.
        egberts1 5y ago
        LOL! Clearly, you do not appear to subscribe to the KISS principle much less ascribe to the security theatre of IT and cybersecurity.
- kelnos 5y ago
  Are you sure? I know this is the case for Debian buster (I am using sysvinit on buster on a low-RAM NAS), but on bullseye on my laptop, if I try to install sysvinit & sysv-rc, it wants to remove things like network-manager and lightdm. Installing openrc doesn't do that, but also doesn't remove any systemd components, so unclear what would happen if I tried to do that.