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>Excellent performance and reliability. Quantum delivered a lot of performance wins, and work continues at a rapid rate on reliability. Unfortunately, to be com
by rndgermandude 5y ago
>Excellent performance and reliability. Quantum delivered a lot of performance wins, and work continues at a rapid rate on reliability. Unfortunately, to be competitive on performance and reliability given Mozilla's funding required dropping XUL :(
Not really true. For starters, they did not drop XUL with Quantum. In fact, they did not drop XUL to this very day[1].
The thing they did drop was XUL and low level access for extensions, copying the "well-defined" extension API from chrome[2]. This was largely a political decision, not a technical one. The aim here was to make extensions more secure by limiting their capabilities, to provide a common stable API to piggy-back on the success of Chrome and get more Chrome-only extensions on board by providing a largely compatible API, and to polish up Firefox reputation by removing the "Firefox breaks some of my extensions with every update" problem[3]. Of course, it kinda backfired, as it largely removed one of Firefox competitive features other browser lacked (extreme combustibility and very powerful add-ons), and people, especially the power users who drove the word-of-mouth, wondered why they still should use Firefox if it just feels like another Chrome. From my vantage point, it didn't polish the reputation, quite the opposite, it destroyed a lot of reputation and goodwill.
>- Excellent performance and reliability.
Firefox performs better for me in general[4], and it eats fewer of my system resources doing so. But YMMV, of course.
>A simplified, modern UI. It's fair to argue about specifics here like "tabs as buttons", but not about simplification overall. This may frustrate power users, but power users are the vast minority.
I do like the current UI, even tho I was rather skeptical at first. It's not perfect of course (when is something ever), but I like it a lot better than say Chrome's UI.
Of course, given mozilla's track record in this regard, it probably will be reinvented soon :P
[1] E.g. while the main UI file is now browser.xhtml not browser.xul, it's actually a mix of (x)html and xul in there, with a lot of the UI still implemented in XUL. They did remove some XUL widgets (especially those that were not actually in use by Firefox anymore, only used by either extensions before the WebExtension forced migration or by third party projects like Seamonkey), and IIRC they killed XBL (which was basically WebComponents for XUL, long before WebComponents was a thing), as XBL was particularly finicky, old and unmaintained and riddled with bugs.
https://searchfox.org/mozilla-central/source/browser/base/content/browser.xhtml#123 https://searchfox.org/mozilla-central/source/browser/base/co...
[2] Implementing the chrome-API badly, I might add. There is still a ton of bugs years later where behavior differs significantly from Chrome. And quite a few APIs that aren't implemented at all. In effect, every reasonably complex extension has to have browser specific code, or avoid certain APIs entirely and come up with creative work arounds that hopefully work consistently in different browser. I am not blaming the team which implemented this stuff; they did the best with the very limited resources mozilla gave them to get an initial implementation going, and then after the initial roll out from what I saw the team was effectively largely disbanded and reassigned, leaving only enough resources to kinda-maintain the existing implementation but not really enough resources to fix all the glaring parity bugs and missing features, instead hoping that volunteers would fill the gap here (and some gaps were indeed filled that way, but not too many).
[3] Which was a bit of a problem, indeed, as extensions did not really have a stable API to use. While mozilla largely tried avoiding major breaking changes by e.g. providing a compat-layer if they changed something or carefully announcing such changes in advance meaning features relying on these changes were often delayed in favor of giving extensions a grace period to adopt to the upcoming stuff, this wasn't always possible and it wasn't always known in advance what change would actually break (a lot, or at least important) extensions. And such compat-layers added to the maintenance cost, and delaying features added to the impression that mozilla was slow-moving.
Providing a chrome-compatible API was probably a good idea, providing only a chrome-compatible API probably not.
[4] Except notoriously on youtube, where it still performs well enough, but worse than Chrome.
- throw10920 5y ago> Firefox performs better for me in general This is genuinely surprising for me. Would you mind showing me what your JetStream[1] numbers are? [1] https://browserbench.org/JetStream/ https://browserbench.org/JetStream/
- rndgermandude 5y agoI don't care about synthetic benchmarks. And this one essentially only tracks js (and webasm) performance, not the overall performance, not even just web performance as this would entail DOM manipulation, layouting and rendering, which this thing doesn't really do. It may have some meaning when all you do every day is use websites that are mostly compute instead of mostly idle. Only very few users will do that, while most users will use mostly idle websites, me included, and then it doesn't really matter if Firefox or Chrome can execute a piece of code 5ms faster than the other. It mattered back in the sunspider days, when js perf was really bad, and Firefox 3 outperformed the IE of the time by a factor of something like 20. But we're at a state right now of highly optimized js engines, so a benchmark difference saying V8 is marginally faster than Spidermonkey isn't really meaningful over all to me and how I am using the browser. I care a lot more about "lived" performance, and that's where Firefox performs better for me. YMMV. E.g. I regularly have noticeable stalls in Chrome e.g. when doing page navigation or just switching already loaded tabs. Nothing massive, but I do not have the same thing in Firefox. I didn't mean to imply there is a real major difference. Firefox is just a little better. But anyway, since you asked: I just very unscientificially ran the benchmark in Firefox and Chrome just now, wasn't motivated enough to make it entirely fair by shutting down other processes which may "steal" CPU time, etc, and the grand result was... Chrome's score was 1.103x the score of Firefox[0]. Chrome is faster in raw js perf, but at the same time, this is still misleading, I would say, considering the context I provided. [0] I know that on more high-end systems than this shitty laptop I am writing on right now, e.g. systems like my actual desktop, the difference might be larger[1], but even then it still holds true for me that js perf differences are mostly noise in my daily use, and Firefox edges out Chrome in other areas that I actually notice. [1] e.g. mozilla's own arewefastyet have Chrome at about 1.4x as fast in JetStream2, and they aren't running this on a shitty laptop like mine. V8 is a terrific js engine, I am not denying that. But js perf is only a small part of the entire picture. https://arewefastyet.com/win10/benchmarks/raptor-desktop-jetstream2?numDays=7 https://arewefastyet.com/win10/benchmarks/raptor-desktop-jet...