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> No. Is it faithful to the books? Not at all. I would offer an even more contrarian take: the show actually is being relatively faithful to the books. At leas

> No. Is it faithful to the books? Not at all. I would offer an even more contrarian take: the show actually is being relatively faithful to the books. At least of the most recent episode. More concretely, while obviously there are important changes (the Cleons, how Seldon dies, the Anacreons invading rather than making diplomatic threats, nobody smoking, etc.) none of these are terribly unfaithful to the story. Most are small bits of harmless dramatic license. Others explore parts of history that the books simply panned away from (e.g., happenings on Trantor during the first Seldon crisis.) What really worries me is that, as of the most recent episode, they seem to be introducing characters with some kind of superpower wherein they can see or alter the future. This is going to screw the story up completely.

jjk166 5y ago
I'm pretty sure the seeing the future thing is just how they're doing the second foundation.
- matthewdgreen 5y ago
  Fingers crossed. Except that also they're giving this power to Salvor Hardin, who really shouldn't have it.
- ASalazarMX 5y ago
  Big but: Foundation never had clairvoyants, not even Gaia. This is a huge deviation from the books, since now we have people predicting the future on their own, without psychohistory.
  - jjk166 5y ago
    Of all the deviations from the books, this is really one of the smallest.
    - ASalazarMX 5y ago
      It's a critical deviation, which shouldn't have been done on a whim. Seldon's psycohistory predicted the path of the whole empire with great accuracy, but knowing their destiny would make people act differently, so Terminus didn't have psycohistorians, just a vault that would open at crucial events and give information. It would have worked well until the Mule threw a wrench with its mental ability to tune other minds. He wasn't a clairvoyant, he just altered people's feelings. The Second Foundation put the plan back on track thanks to their own mental abilities, but they also weren't clairvoyants. So far only psychohistory could predict the future. Later we have Golan Trevize, who also couldn't see the future, but had a gift for choosing right with incomplete information. Even Gaia had to rely on Trevize for its final decision. Foundation's Gaal can see the future, and this is a world breaking ability. Hari Seldon and his psycohistory become obsolete since she can do that on her own, any action against the Foundation is moot, any deviation from the plan can be predicted, etc. The only way to write Gaal out of that corner is making her clairvoyance work as reliable or unreliable as the plot needs (lazy writing), and judging from how she can predict and block micrometeorites now (which can puncture a ship's shield and hull, but not a tablet), it seems that's the route they will take. There was no need to introduce clairvoyance in the Foundation's universe.
      - jjk166 5y ago
        I think there's a wide gulf between predicting the entire course of the collapse of a galactic empire centuries out into the future, and being able to anticipate a meteorite impact fractions of a second into the future. At most, Gaal has had a vague, bad feeling about something minutes before it happened. While they may have the second foundation refine this ability and be able to predict things out over longer time frames, as of yet there is no one who can make predictions in any way comparable to psychohistory. Whether or not there is a need for this really depends on where the story is going, which is at this point unclear but definitely not the direction of the original books.
        matthewdgreen 5y ago
        The show seems to be heavily leaning towards the idea that this capability is going very important to the plot. A significant portion of the last episode consists of Hari Seldon explaining to Gaal how significant her powers are, and demonstrating that they can clearly predict complicated near-future events. I hope you’re right that the show will place tight restrictions on this macguffin, but I’m definitely worried.
tootie 5y ago
The most recent episode lost me. I think the biggest problem with filming the books is that the cast turns over every chapter. The genetic dynasty, Hari's hologram, Gaal going into extended hibernation are perfectly viable plot devices to keep the audience interested. So is jazzing up the action Making Gaal psychic really lost me. And so is the portrayal of Hari's forecasts as being a plan that hinges on specific people. That's really contrary to the book. The whole point of psychohistory is that cultural and society trends are nearly unavoidable and the individuals and their actions are nearly irrelevant except at the crisis moments where he would pop in to give relevant advice to whoever was around to listen. Magic people whose destiny is woven into the universe is completely anathema to that theme. That's just boring Star Wars.

jjk166 5y ago

I'm pretty sure the seeing the future thing is just how they're doing the second foundation.

matthewdgreen 5y ago
Fingers crossed. Except that also they're giving this power to Salvor Hardin, who really shouldn't have it.
ASalazarMX 5y ago
Big but: Foundation never had clairvoyants, not even Gaia. This is a huge deviation from the books, since now we have people predicting the future on their own, without psychohistory.
- jjk166 5y ago
  Of all the deviations from the books, this is really one of the smallest.
  - ASalazarMX 5y ago
    It's a critical deviation, which shouldn't have been done on a whim. Seldon's psycohistory predicted the path of the whole empire with great accuracy, but knowing their destiny would make people act differently, so Terminus didn't have psycohistorians, just a vault that would open at crucial events and give information. It would have worked well until the Mule threw a wrench with its mental ability to tune other minds. He wasn't a clairvoyant, he just altered people's feelings. The Second Foundation put the plan back on track thanks to their own mental abilities, but they also weren't clairvoyants. So far only psychohistory could predict the future. Later we have Golan Trevize, who also couldn't see the future, but had a gift for choosing right with incomplete information. Even Gaia had to rely on Trevize for its final decision. Foundation's Gaal can see the future, and this is a world breaking ability. Hari Seldon and his psycohistory become obsolete since she can do that on her own, any action against the Foundation is moot, any deviation from the plan can be predicted, etc. The only way to write Gaal out of that corner is making her clairvoyance work as reliable or unreliable as the plot needs (lazy writing), and judging from how she can predict and block micrometeorites now (which can puncture a ship's shield and hull, but not a tablet), it seems that's the route they will take. There was no need to introduce clairvoyance in the Foundation's universe.
    - jjk166 5y ago
      I think there's a wide gulf between predicting the entire course of the collapse of a galactic empire centuries out into the future, and being able to anticipate a meteorite impact fractions of a second into the future. At most, Gaal has had a vague, bad feeling about something minutes before it happened. While they may have the second foundation refine this ability and be able to predict things out over longer time frames, as of yet there is no one who can make predictions in any way comparable to psychohistory. Whether or not there is a need for this really depends on where the story is going, which is at this point unclear but definitely not the direction of the original books.
      - matthewdgreen 5y ago
        The show seems to be heavily leaning towards the idea that this capability is going very important to the plot. A significant portion of the last episode consists of Hari Seldon explaining to Gaal how significant her powers are, and demonstrating that they can clearly predict complicated near-future events. I hope you’re right that the show will place tight restrictions on this macguffin, but I’m definitely worried.

tootie 5y ago

The most recent episode lost me. I think the biggest problem with filming the books is that the cast turns over every chapter. The genetic dynasty, Hari's hologram, Gaal going into extended hibernation are perfectly viable plot devices to keep the audience interested. So is jazzing up the action Making Gaal psychic really lost me. And so is the portrayal of Hari's forecasts as being a plan that hinges on specific people. That's really contrary to the book. The whole point of psychohistory is that cultural and society trends are nearly unavoidable and the individuals and their actions are nearly irrelevant except at the crisis moments where he would pop in to give relevant advice to whoever was around to listen. Magic people whose destiny is woven into the universe is completely anathema to that theme. That's just boring Star Wars.