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you can learn a lot about a person by sitting down and having a meal with them and miraculously alot of the online vitrol dissipates when you have a chance to s

you can learn a lot about a person by sitting down and having a meal with them and miraculously alot of the online vitrol dissipates when you have a chance to see them as a full person.

JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> alot of the online vitrol dissipates when you have a chance to see them as a full person But remove the physical proximity and the vitriol often re-animates.
hpoe 5y ago
Interestingly enough that is what Daryl Davis decided to do to start fighting racism, got over a dozen members, including a grand wizard, to leave the Klan. I'd recommend watching his TedTalk it really helped me understand how to better work with others, and how to bring about understanding. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORp3q1Oaezw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORp3q1Oaezw
MattGaiser 5y ago
Or are they just hiding it because social norms require that they do? As we have pretty strong social expectations for how people behave at meals.
- standardUser 5y ago
  We have very strong social expectations when interacting with mixed company in any in-person setting. And zero social expectations when interacting online, where anything up to and including death threats seems acceptable to many. Cars are an interesting in-between, where we're just barely removed from being in-person and as a result we tend to act far more rudely and dangerously than we would to someone's face.
- mumblemumble 5y ago
  It's a feedback loop. Put someone in an environment where social norms favor civility and respect, and they will generally become more civil and respectful over time. Put them in an environment where social norms favor tribalism and vitriol, and they will tend to become more tribal and vitriolic over time. That said, I think we should be cautious about nostalgia for how things worked before the Internet. 30 years ago, people in socioeconomically homogenous communities might have been adept at being civil to and empathizing with their neighbors, but they perhaps also had a lot less opportunity to become aware of what was going on outside their bubbles.
- cnity 5y ago
  I don't mean this personally, but I'd like to dive into this take. It is common these days for people to interpret the self-management people perform as a type of filtering (or "hiding" in your words). I find the cynicism in this viewpoint to be distasteful, when equally one could interpret the same behavior much more favorably. When someone, for example, tidies their apartment because they anticipate a guest, they are engaging in exactly the same thing. But this is widely considered a good thing. The connections one anticipates have caused one to "brush up". The same thing is true for outspoken opinions. We aren't just "real" creatures with disgusting opinions walking around wearing "fake" masks to hide them. The treatment of a person is different depending on which lens you opt for. On the one hand, you view society as a collection of people who ought to be unmasked, for their true identity to be uncovered and scorned appropriately. On the other, you view society as a collection of people with a fluid set of opinions that are molded by the company they are with. The unspoken idea becomes the forgotten, abandoned idea.
  - kenjackson 5y ago
    There's a huge difference between tidying an apartment and hiding your real opinion, especially when your real opinion fundamentally runs in opposition to my morals. This is more like having kidnapped people in your house and hiding them so when someone comes over for dinner, no one can see them. I'm not morally opposed to a cluttered counter.
    - kritiko 5y ago
      I think there's some nuance here. I might make sure that any prescription drugs or other sensitive items out of sight for guests even if I'm not ashamed of talking about this with some people... But I think avoiding political conversations is best described by what I've seen called "social cooling" - I don't really care about litigating morality with family at Thanksgiving. We may have fundamental differences in our interpretation of reality and human behavior, but that doesn't make one of us an actual criminal.
      - MandieD 5y ago
andrew_ 5y ago
A few years back I met a woman at a bar, flirted, got a number, and went on a date. About 30 minutes into the date she brought up politics, and was on the opposite side of the spectrum from myself. That didn't change that I thought she was funny and was interested enough to flirt and set up a date. We just mutually agreed that we had no business dating, had a laugh, and finished out the night together with the understanding that we could have a good time despite the differences that wouldn't allow for dating. Online media attempt to amplify these differences to the point of rage because there's money it in.

you can learn a lot about a person by sitting down and having a meal with them and miraculously alot of the online vitrol dissipates when you have a chance to see them as a full person.

JumpCrisscross 5y ago

> alot of the online vitrol dissipates when you have a chance to see them as a full person But remove the physical proximity and the vitriol often re-animates.

hpoe 5y ago

Interestingly enough that is what Daryl Davis decided to do to start fighting racism, got over a dozen members, including a grand wizard, to leave the Klan. I'd recommend watching his TedTalk it really helped me understand how to better work with others, and how to bring about understanding. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORp3q1Oaezw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORp3q1Oaezw

MattGaiser 5y ago

Or are they just hiding it because social norms require that they do? As we have pretty strong social expectations for how people behave at meals.

standardUser 5y ago
We have very strong social expectations when interacting with mixed company in any in-person setting. And zero social expectations when interacting online, where anything up to and including death threats seems acceptable to many. Cars are an interesting in-between, where we're just barely removed from being in-person and as a result we tend to act far more rudely and dangerously than we would to someone's face.
mumblemumble 5y ago
It's a feedback loop. Put someone in an environment where social norms favor civility and respect, and they will generally become more civil and respectful over time. Put them in an environment where social norms favor tribalism and vitriol, and they will tend to become more tribal and vitriolic over time. That said, I think we should be cautious about nostalgia for how things worked before the Internet. 30 years ago, people in socioeconomically homogenous communities might have been adept at being civil to and empathizing with their neighbors, but they perhaps also had a lot less opportunity to become aware of what was going on outside their bubbles.
cnity 5y ago
I don't mean this personally, but I'd like to dive into this take. It is common these days for people to interpret the self-management people perform as a type of filtering (or "hiding" in your words). I find the cynicism in this viewpoint to be distasteful, when equally one could interpret the same behavior much more favorably. When someone, for example, tidies their apartment because they anticipate a guest, they are engaging in exactly the same thing. But this is widely considered a good thing. The connections one anticipates have caused one to "brush up". The same thing is true for outspoken opinions. We aren't just "real" creatures with disgusting opinions walking around wearing "fake" masks to hide them. The treatment of a person is different depending on which lens you opt for. On the one hand, you view society as a collection of people who ought to be unmasked, for their true identity to be uncovered and scorned appropriately. On the other, you view society as a collection of people with a fluid set of opinions that are molded by the company they are with. The unspoken idea becomes the forgotten, abandoned idea.
- kenjackson 5y ago
  There's a huge difference between tidying an apartment and hiding your real opinion, especially when your real opinion fundamentally runs in opposition to my morals. This is more like having kidnapped people in your house and hiding them so when someone comes over for dinner, no one can see them. I'm not morally opposed to a cluttered counter.
  - kritiko 5y ago
    I think there's some nuance here. I might make sure that any prescription drugs or other sensitive items out of sight for guests even if I'm not ashamed of talking about this with some people... But I think avoiding political conversations is best described by what I've seen called "social cooling" - I don't really care about litigating morality with family at Thanksgiving. We may have fundamental differences in our interpretation of reality and human behavior, but that doesn't make one of us an actual criminal.
    - MandieD 5y ago

andrew_ 5y ago

A few years back I met a woman at a bar, flirted, got a number, and went on a date. About 30 minutes into the date she brought up politics, and was on the opposite side of the spectrum from myself. That didn't change that I thought she was funny and was interested enough to flirt and set up a date. We just mutually agreed that we had no business dating, had a laugh, and finished out the night together with the understanding that we could have a good time despite the differences that wouldn't allow for dating. Online media attempt to amplify these differences to the point of rage because there's money it in.