6 ms·

False equivalence. Using 5 different beans is different from using something like HFCS, hexane refined hydrogenated rapeseed oil, and industrially separated ri

False equivalence. Using 5 different beans is different from using something like HFCS, hexane refined hydrogenated rapeseed oil, and industrially separated rice protein and pea protein, unless you think we should equate ingredients such as quinoa and benzoic acid.

phonypc 5y ago
Expeller-pressed canola oil is explicitly not "hexane refined hydrogenated rapeseed oil". Also no HFCS.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  These are examples of products that are vegan and are commonly found in vegan food. So do you equate the industrial separating of plant protein from grains as the same as a white northern bean?
  - phonypc 5y ago
    No, they aren't equivalent. But that's not an argument against eating isolated plant proteins.
    - GhettoComputers 5y ago
      Yes it is. It is a legitimate reason against eating heavily processed food including plant proteins, and you have made zero legitimate arguement against it, saying no its not is an invalid point.
      - phonypc 5y ago
        I'm not even trying to argue that anything is good to eat here. This comment chain, since the ingredient list of a Beyond burger was posted, has amounted to pointing in the vague direction of that list and things like it and saying "Ew! Too many ingredients. Too processed". The point I'm trying to get across is that, insofar as a Beyond burger is bad, it's because of some specific ingredients or processes. It's not substantive to just post the ingredients, or make nebulous allusions to them being gross or un-nutritious.
        GhettoComputers 5y ago
        Using many processed ingredients to replace one is a valid reason why its not appetizing. Implying a previously single ingredient which is now made of overpriced heavily industrially processed mixtures of grain and beans mixed with flavorings and chemicals gives the underlying implication plant based foods suck and need corporations to heavily process them until it’s bearable to eat despite its worst nutrition and higher cost than meat. It isn't nebulous, its expensive, disgusting, heavily processed, who is this marketing well to? Vegans, normal people who love expensive processed food? Who is this for? Its a expensive frankenstein "food" with poorer nutrients that no normal people will willingly accept when there is real meat around. They will never adopt it, the heath concious vegan that buys from whole foods will look down on it, most vegans say they hate meat and won't eat things that taste like meat, and the meat eater won't think highly of it either. Most people who ate it or will eat it as a novelty once, but not take it seriously.
        ben_w 5y ago
        > Using many processed ingredients to replace one is a valid reason why its not appetizing. No, it isn’t? That “one” ingredient is just a thousand in disguise. Even aside that there are lots of scary-sounding chemicals in all living things just to keep us alive: Is the beef hormone-fed? Does it have BSE because it was fed ground-up other cows? Antibiotic abuse for weight gain? And so on. > Its a expensive frankenstein "food" with poorer nutrients that no normal people will willingly accept when there is real meat around. It’s no more of a “Frankenstein food” (a term I previously only associated with GMO) than, e.g. Snickers candy bars, which are wildly popular. > They will never adopt it, Perhaps, perhaps not. But IMO failure is more likely to come from alternative non-meat (or vat-meat) than because of what you’re objecting to. > the heath concious vegan that buys from whole foods will look down on it, Sone will, some won’t. The big four (fat/carb/protein/fibre) ratios won’t put anyone off, especially not people who might otherwise go for Quorn burgers. > most vegans say they hate meat and won't eat things that taste like meat, Do they? I don’t know what meat tastes like. But then, I’m not even vegan, I’m a vegetarian (who avoids cow milk yes, but not derivatives). > and the meat eater won't think highly of it either. You might not — you might even have tried one of them in order to make a fair comparison, though you’re writing in a way which suggests to me you have an identity of being a meat eater — but I have accidentally cooked vegan meals for people who are normally heavy meat eaters and they’ve complemented me for it. It feels like you’re projecting to claim that of most people. I suspect most people won’t care, assuming it’s cheap enough. How much do these things cost in Burger King or McD or wherever? > Most people who ate it or will eat it as a novelty once Wouldn’t be surprised. Most new things oversell and under-deliver. But I wouldn’t write them off, either.
ben_w 5y ago
Makes me wonder how the soy mince I used in the chilli was made from the soybeans. Or the oil extracted from whichever vegetable vegetable oil is made from. Or the creatine I put into chilli (the packet says to put it in water and drink it, but it’s nowhere near soluble enough so I put it in food instead). > Benzoic acid and its salts are used as a food preservatives Why would I bother? And objecting to a preservative is like objecting to refrigerators. If refrigerators didn’t exist, I’d put something like that into my chilli, no problem.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  Real meat doesn't require you to research that or worry about it. No thank you to some weird expensive frankenstein food to replace a single ingredient with poorer nutrition.
  - ben_w 5y ago
    A functioning food regulatory body is why I don’t worry about it and didn’t bother researching those things before happily eating. Perhaps regulators don’t function where you live? But if so I wouldn’t trust the meat (well I’m veggie but same point; nor dairy or anything else) either. Why do you keep asserting that Beyond Burger has worse nutrition? I’ve not seen anything to justify that.
    - GhettoComputers 5y ago
      They approve coca cola and candy bars, will you eat and drink nothing but them since the food regulatory says they are safe? Meat doesn't have carbs and has more digestable protein. I am not eating more expensive heavily processed fake meat with carbs and lower quality protein.
      - ben_w 5y ago
        That’s like saying cars are death traps for the occupants, then responding to evidence they’re regulated for safety by asking someone who drives if they’d drive into a harbour. (And to continue the analogy, your other comments would be “Nobody would ever buy these! They’re expensive and worse than running!” while ignoring the demonstrably large market. And I guess I’d be a cyclist?) I’m happy to eat only things that are regulated, even if not to then further limit myself to the specific subset your tangent is going to now. Don’t put words into my mouth to try to argue against something I didn’t say.

phonypc 5y ago

Expeller-pressed canola oil is explicitly not "hexane refined hydrogenated rapeseed oil". Also no HFCS.

GhettoComputers 5y ago
These are examples of products that are vegan and are commonly found in vegan food. So do you equate the industrial separating of plant protein from grains as the same as a white northern bean?
- phonypc 5y ago
  No, they aren't equivalent. But that's not an argument against eating isolated plant proteins.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    Yes it is. It is a legitimate reason against eating heavily processed food including plant proteins, and you have made zero legitimate arguement against it, saying no its not is an invalid point.
    - phonypc 5y ago
      I'm not even trying to argue that anything is good to eat here. This comment chain, since the ingredient list of a Beyond burger was posted, has amounted to pointing in the vague direction of that list and things like it and saying "Ew! Too many ingredients. Too processed". The point I'm trying to get across is that, insofar as a Beyond burger is bad, it's because of some specific ingredients or processes. It's not substantive to just post the ingredients, or make nebulous allusions to them being gross or un-nutritious.
      - GhettoComputers 5y ago
        Using many processed ingredients to replace one is a valid reason why its not appetizing. Implying a previously single ingredient which is now made of overpriced heavily industrially processed mixtures of grain and beans mixed with flavorings and chemicals gives the underlying implication plant based foods suck and need corporations to heavily process them until it’s bearable to eat despite its worst nutrition and higher cost than meat. It isn't nebulous, its expensive, disgusting, heavily processed, who is this marketing well to? Vegans, normal people who love expensive processed food? Who is this for? Its a expensive frankenstein "food" with poorer nutrients that no normal people will willingly accept when there is real meat around. They will never adopt it, the heath concious vegan that buys from whole foods will look down on it, most vegans say they hate meat and won't eat things that taste like meat, and the meat eater won't think highly of it either. Most people who ate it or will eat it as a novelty once, but not take it seriously.
        ben_w 5y ago
        > Using many processed ingredients to replace one is a valid reason why its not appetizing. No, it isn’t? That “one” ingredient is just a thousand in disguise. Even aside that there are lots of scary-sounding chemicals in all living things just to keep us alive: Is the beef hormone-fed? Does it have BSE because it was fed ground-up other cows? Antibiotic abuse for weight gain? And so on. > Its a expensive frankenstein "food" with poorer nutrients that no normal people will willingly accept when there is real meat around. It’s no more of a “Frankenstein food” (a term I previously only associated with GMO) than, e.g. Snickers candy bars, which are wildly popular. > They will never adopt it, Perhaps, perhaps not. But IMO failure is more likely to come from alternative non-meat (or vat-meat) than because of what you’re objecting to. > the heath concious vegan that buys from whole foods will look down on it, Sone will, some won’t. The big four (fat/carb/protein/fibre) ratios won’t put anyone off, especially not people who might otherwise go for Quorn burgers. > most vegans say they hate meat and won't eat things that taste like meat, Do they? I don’t know what meat tastes like. But then, I’m not even vegan, I’m a vegetarian (who avoids cow milk yes, but not derivatives). > and the meat eater won't think highly of it either. You might not — you might even have tried one of them in order to make a fair comparison, though you’re writing in a way which suggests to me you have an identity of being a meat eater — but I have accidentally cooked vegan meals for people who are normally heavy meat eaters and they’ve complemented me for it. It feels like you’re projecting to claim that of most people. I suspect most people won’t care, assuming it’s cheap enough. How much do these things cost in Burger King or McD or wherever? > Most people who ate it or will eat it as a novelty once Wouldn’t be surprised. Most new things oversell and under-deliver. But I wouldn’t write them off, either.

ben_w 5y ago

Makes me wonder how the soy mince I used in the chilli was made from the soybeans. Or the oil extracted from whichever vegetable vegetable oil is made from. Or the creatine I put into chilli (the packet says to put it in water and drink it, but it’s nowhere near soluble enough so I put it in food instead). > Benzoic acid and its salts are used as a food preservatives Why would I bother? And objecting to a preservative is like objecting to refrigerators. If refrigerators didn’t exist, I’d put something like that into my chilli, no problem.

GhettoComputers 5y ago
Real meat doesn't require you to research that or worry about it. No thank you to some weird expensive frankenstein food to replace a single ingredient with poorer nutrition.
- ben_w 5y ago
  A functioning food regulatory body is why I don’t worry about it and didn’t bother researching those things before happily eating. Perhaps regulators don’t function where you live? But if so I wouldn’t trust the meat (well I’m veggie but same point; nor dairy or anything else) either. Why do you keep asserting that Beyond Burger has worse nutrition? I’ve not seen anything to justify that.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    They approve coca cola and candy bars, will you eat and drink nothing but them since the food regulatory says they are safe? Meat doesn't have carbs and has more digestable protein. I am not eating more expensive heavily processed fake meat with carbs and lower quality protein.
    - ben_w 5y ago
      That’s like saying cars are death traps for the occupants, then responding to evidence they’re regulated for safety by asking someone who drives if they’d drive into a harbour. (And to continue the analogy, your other comments would be “Nobody would ever buy these! They’re expensive and worse than running!” while ignoring the demonstrably large market. And I guess I’d be a cyclist?) I’m happy to eat only things that are regulated, even if not to then further limit myself to the specific subset your tangent is going to now. Don’t put words into my mouth to try to argue against something I didn’t say.