4 ms·

> They can, which doesn't mean they should. Why? I mean, don't you believe you have a say on who you grant permission to use your intellectual property? > Als

by nuerow 5y ago

> They can, which doesn't mean they should. Why? I mean, don't you believe you have a say on who you grant permission to use your intellectual property? > Also, I think a person has a mortal obligation to allow that their political position is at least partially flawed. This assertion makes no sense. You should not be forced to help advance anyone's goals when they are diametrically opposite to what you believe in and can be outright hostile towards you and your loved ones.

margalabargala 5y ago
> Why? I mean, don't you believe you have a say on who you grant permission to use your intellectual property? If the author of some software has a general good-faith position that others should use their software, then the conditions they associate with that software fall on a continuum from "reasonable to "unreasonable". The MIT license is at the reasonable end. Saying "give me ten million dollars for this ROT13 algorithm" is at the unreasonable end. When the person you replied to said: > They can, which doesn't mean they should. I think they were saying they personally considered the terms of the license at the "unreasonable" end. I don't disagree- saying "you can use this for now, but have to stop immediately if I or anyone I might sell this to say so" seems at least borderline unreasonable. It certainly isn't "free software", though being wrapped in what is otherwise the Blue Oak license they're kind of hiding their non-free-ness. I think this is where I mostly take issue- it feels like the project is attempting to portray itself as a free software project, when it is not.
- nuerow 5y ago
  > If the author of some software has a general good-faith position (...) The "good-faith position" weasel words only serve to try to fabricate and cast doubt on the morality of a decision on how your work can and should be used, and only because you find it inconvenient. For some reason, your argument completely eliminates the author from the decision process. Do you find that to be fair or in good faith? Meanwhile, I never saw anyone attack musicians based on "morality" for refusing to authorize the use of their work by specific politicians or specific election campaigns, even when authors only claim personal preferences or even prefering other candidates.
  - horsawlarway 5y ago
    > For some reason, your argument completely eliminates the author from the decision process. Do you find that to be fair or in good faith? As someone reading through this: Yes. I find that argument both reasonable and fair. The author is free to ask for compensation up front in exchange for the tool they've built. They can also just simply refuse to license it in the first place. But a license that I can violate if the author simply changes their mind is quicksand: Nothing of value can be built on it, because it might sink at ANY POINT. It's literally unusable as a tool.
  - ipaddr 5y ago
    Musicians can say they would rather someone not use a song but they sold their rights a long time ago. Very few own those songs they wish others not to use.
  - margalabargala 5y ago
    The "good faith position" weasel words, along with the rest of my comment regarding the whole thing being a spectrum of subjective reasonableness, serve to make it clear that this is a highly subjective topic where you and I have different opinions. Where I personally draw the line is something being presented as a "general purpose tool", versus as an exclusive work. When Stuart Stemple created a pink pigment and granted license to use it to "everyone except Anish Kapoor", I thought it was a great artistic statement, but as a practical matter I think it's unreasonable. It's the difference between a whitelist and a blacklist. Saying "you can use this if you meet these criteria (e.g. having no criteria, having paid me money, etc)" is okay, but saying "everyone can use this EXCEPT if I decide I don't want you too" is not. In my opinion.

by nuerow 5y ago

margalabargala 5y ago

> Why? I mean, don't you believe you have a say on who you grant permission to use your intellectual property? If the author of some software has a general good-faith position that others should use their software, then the conditions they associate with that software fall on a continuum from "reasonable to "unreasonable". The MIT license is at the reasonable end. Saying "give me ten million dollars for this ROT13 algorithm" is at the unreasonable end. When the person you replied to said: > They can, which doesn't mean they should. I think they were saying they personally considered the terms of the license at the "unreasonable" end. I don't disagree- saying "you can use this for now, but have to stop immediately if I or anyone I might sell this to say so" seems at least borderline unreasonable. It certainly isn't "free software", though being wrapped in what is otherwise the Blue Oak license they're kind of hiding their non-free-ness. I think this is where I mostly take issue- it feels like the project is attempting to portray itself as a free software project, when it is not.

nuerow 5y ago
> If the author of some software has a general good-faith position (...) The "good-faith position" weasel words only serve to try to fabricate and cast doubt on the morality of a decision on how your work can and should be used, and only because you find it inconvenient. For some reason, your argument completely eliminates the author from the decision process. Do you find that to be fair or in good faith? Meanwhile, I never saw anyone attack musicians based on "morality" for refusing to authorize the use of their work by specific politicians or specific election campaigns, even when authors only claim personal preferences or even prefering other candidates.
- horsawlarway 5y ago
  > For some reason, your argument completely eliminates the author from the decision process. Do you find that to be fair or in good faith? As someone reading through this: Yes. I find that argument both reasonable and fair. The author is free to ask for compensation up front in exchange for the tool they've built. They can also just simply refuse to license it in the first place. But a license that I can violate if the author simply changes their mind is quicksand: Nothing of value can be built on it, because it might sink at ANY POINT. It's literally unusable as a tool.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  Musicians can say they would rather someone not use a song but they sold their rights a long time ago. Very few own those songs they wish others not to use.
- margalabargala 5y ago
  The "good faith position" weasel words, along with the rest of my comment regarding the whole thing being a spectrum of subjective reasonableness, serve to make it clear that this is a highly subjective topic where you and I have different opinions. Where I personally draw the line is something being presented as a "general purpose tool", versus as an exclusive work. When Stuart Stemple created a pink pigment and granted license to use it to "everyone except Anish Kapoor", I thought it was a great artistic statement, but as a practical matter I think it's unreasonable. It's the difference between a whitelist and a blacklist. Saying "you can use this if you meet these criteria (e.g. having no criteria, having paid me money, etc)" is okay, but saying "everyone can use this EXCEPT if I decide I don't want you too" is not. In my opinion.