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And this article is exactly why it shows that it made so much sense. With one software update, so many more chargers came online for all EVs in Europe, that cou

by llampx 5y ago

And this article is exactly why it shows that it made so much sense. With one software update, so many more chargers came online for all EVs in Europe, that could not happen in the US where Teslas use a special plug.

namlem 5y ago
The plug isn't that big an obstacle, adapters are like $150.
- mrtksn 5y ago
  Any friction is a big deal, it makes the difference between having a few nerds doing it or everybody.
clouddrover 5y ago
Tesla created the same problem for themselves in Europe. Instead of being CCS Type 2 Combo from the beginning, Tesla initially went with their own different special plug. It was a modified Type 2 which also supported DC fast charging. A few years ago Tesla retrofitted all chargers in Europe to have two plugs - their modified type 2 and CCS. The Model 3 launched with a CCS inlet in Europe and older Model Ss and Xs needed a hardware change and an adapter to use CCS: https://insideevs.com/news/343728/most-tesla-superchargers-now-retrofitted-with-ccs-plugs-in-europe-video/ https://insideevs.com/news/343728/most-tesla-superchargers-n... https://insideevs.com/news/438861/ccs2-retrofit-tesla-europe-cheaper/ https://insideevs.com/news/438861/ccs2-retrofit-tesla-europe... These days Tesla's newer chargers just have CCS plugs. Tesla could do a similar retrofit in North America as part of the transition to CCS. It's a bigger problem because there are more chargers to do, but it's still only 12,653 ports: https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  Tesla didn’t create the problem for themselves purposely. CCS Type 2 was not in production when Tesla began building Superchargers a decade ago (and didn’t want their progress impeded by typical “death by committee” of legacy automakers, as a functioning fast DC charging network is a moat and an asset for an EV manufacturer), and while Europe forced them to adopt CCS in that market, I believe Tesla’s plug will remain the standard in the US for the foreseeable future (as they sell the majority of EVs in America, have the largest charging network, and the US government doesn’t have the political will to mandate CCS). Tesla has committed to tripling the size of the US Supercharger network in the next two years while Electrify America is desperate for investment it can’t get (because, no surprise, you can’t make a profit with fast DC charging stations between demand charges and price sensitive drivers [1]; it’s a cost center you want to break even on to sell high margin cars, not a revenue driver as a distinct business). [1] https://www.utilitydive.com/news/nearly-all-high-voltage-ev-charging-stations-lose-money-report/561026/ https://www.utilitydive.com/news/nearly-all-high-voltage-ev-...
  - Reason077 5y ago
    > "you can’t make a profit with fast DC charging stations between demand charges and price sensitive drivers" Fast charging will be perfectly profitable in the longer term. There just isn't a large enough established base of EVs to create enough demand yet. But once there is, there will be plenty of customers willing to pay a premium for the fastest, best-located chargers with the best amenities and services on site. Fast charger operators can make significantly higher margins on reselling electricity than anyone is making on gasoline. Demand charges are an issue when demand is limited and spiky, but this will be alleviated through increased scale. More customers charging results in a smoother, more predictable demand curve. On-site battery storage is another solution.
  - clouddrover 5y ago
    > I believe Tesla’s plug will remain the standard in the US for the foreseeable future It isn't the standard now. All other manufacturers have switched to CCS Type 1 Combo. Tesla is the last holdout. Tesla sells J1772 chargers and they will sell a CCS adapter. The next step is to put CCS plugs on the chargers and then CCS inlets on the cars.

by llampx 5y ago

namlem 5y ago

The plug isn't that big an obstacle, adapters are like $150.

mrtksn 5y ago
Any friction is a big deal, it makes the difference between having a few nerds doing it or everybody.

clouddrover 5y ago

Tesla created the same problem for themselves in Europe. Instead of being CCS Type 2 Combo from the beginning, Tesla initially went with their own different special plug. It was a modified Type 2 which also supported DC fast charging. A few years ago Tesla retrofitted all chargers in Europe to have two plugs - their modified type 2 and CCS. The Model 3 launched with a CCS inlet in Europe and older Model Ss and Xs needed a hardware change and an adapter to use CCS: https://insideevs.com/news/343728/most-tesla-superchargers-now-retrofitted-with-ccs-plugs-in-europe-video/ https://insideevs.com/news/343728/most-tesla-superchargers-n... https://insideevs.com/news/438861/ccs2-retrofit-tesla-europe-cheaper/ https://insideevs.com/news/438861/ccs2-retrofit-tesla-europe... These days Tesla's newer chargers just have CCS plugs. Tesla could do a similar retrofit in North America as part of the transition to CCS. It's a bigger problem because there are more chargers to do, but it's still only 12,653 ports: https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
toomuchtodo 5y ago
Tesla didn’t create the problem for themselves purposely. CCS Type 2 was not in production when Tesla began building Superchargers a decade ago (and didn’t want their progress impeded by typical “death by committee” of legacy automakers, as a functioning fast DC charging network is a moat and an asset for an EV manufacturer), and while Europe forced them to adopt CCS in that market, I believe Tesla’s plug will remain the standard in the US for the foreseeable future (as they sell the majority of EVs in America, have the largest charging network, and the US government doesn’t have the political will to mandate CCS). Tesla has committed to tripling the size of the US Supercharger network in the next two years while Electrify America is desperate for investment it can’t get (because, no surprise, you can’t make a profit with fast DC charging stations between demand charges and price sensitive drivers [1]; it’s a cost center you want to break even on to sell high margin cars, not a revenue driver as a distinct business). [1] https://www.utilitydive.com/news/nearly-all-high-voltage-ev-charging-stations-lose-money-report/561026/ https://www.utilitydive.com/news/nearly-all-high-voltage-ev-...
- Reason077 5y ago
  > "you can’t make a profit with fast DC charging stations between demand charges and price sensitive drivers" Fast charging will be perfectly profitable in the longer term. There just isn't a large enough established base of EVs to create enough demand yet. But once there is, there will be plenty of customers willing to pay a premium for the fastest, best-located chargers with the best amenities and services on site. Fast charger operators can make significantly higher margins on reselling electricity than anyone is making on gasoline. Demand charges are an issue when demand is limited and spiky, but this will be alleviated through increased scale. More customers charging results in a smoother, more predictable demand curve. On-site battery storage is another solution.
- clouddrover 5y ago
  > I believe Tesla’s plug will remain the standard in the US for the foreseeable future It isn't the standard now. All other manufacturers have switched to CCS Type 1 Combo. Tesla is the last holdout. Tesla sells J1772 chargers and they will sell a CCS adapter. The next step is to put CCS plugs on the chargers and then CCS inlets on the cars.