5 ms·

One of my pet-peeves is how common it is for applications these days to assume you always have a reliable Internet connection. The shift to webapps makes the wh

One of my pet-peeves is how common it is for applications these days to assume you always have a reliable Internet connection. The shift to webapps makes the whole system really fragile. All it takes for an app to become unusable for everyone is a failure in just a couple nodes in the system. I don't use GitHub for work, but it's always amusing to see the cries of people who do, when it does down from time to time. The ability of many companies around the world to continue operating depends on just one company continuously making the right calls. In the future, when Ubisoft's servers go down, I won't be able to play Assassin's Creed games anymore, even though the servers don't really provide any value to me as a player. On Spotify I keep downloading the same songs over and over again. Poisoning the environment more than if I got a CD. These days I try to buy songs to download once and then play in my favourite offline music player. And of course SSH, the "secure shell", application which doesn't really optimize for shells. Responsiveness of typing things in the shell prompt relies on the quality of the Internet connection and the CPU load on the server machine - a process during which the server doesn't really have anything interesting to say. I'm working on the side on creating a company and those opinions lead me to choose the harder path of desktop applications which don't need Internet connection for anything that doesn't require it by definition. They're more resilient and comfortable to use. I'll probably fail, but I really can't make any other choice at the moment, I need to at least try and see for myself.

xena 5y ago
When those Ubisoft servers go down for good, the pirated copies of those games will be the ones preserved forever instead of the release ones.
- throwaway946513 5y ago
  See Driver: San Francisco One of my favorite games, if not overall favorite. It's impossible to find a new copy now. Any legal copy you find is likely only a CD-key from some reseller site, or a physical disc for PS3/Xbox 360. It's not available from Ubisoft's store, nor Steam's store (where I purchased my copy).
ehnto 5y ago
> I'm working on the side on creating a company and those opinions lead me to choose the harder path of desktop applications which don't need Internet connection for anything that doesn't require it by definition. They're more resilient and comfortable to use. I'll probably fail, but I really can't make any other choice at the moment, I need to at least try and see for myself. Very refreshing, I really appreciate that choice. As humans in tech I'm sure it's frustrating that everything requires accounts and constantly online services, since we can imagine the software working perfectly fine without it. Games are especially nefarious with account requirements, but even different work software will fail without an account. Using a modern 3D art authoring pipeline can easily have you logged in to two or three services while you work.
nextaccountic 5y ago
There are more responsive alternatives to ssh, like mosh https://mosh.org/ https://mosh.org/ (discussed recently https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28150287 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28150287) And uhm.. eternal terminal? https://eternalterminal.dev/ https://eternalterminal.dev/ (discussed in 2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21640200 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21640200) And, perhaps others? There's this article https://console.dev/articles/ssh-alternatives-for-mobile-low-latency-unreliable-connections/ https://console.dev/articles/ssh-alternatives-for-mobile-low... (edit: I just submitted it to HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29081008 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29081008)
rakoo 5y ago
Totally agree with your points, but for SSH in particular mosh (https://mosh.org/ https://mosh.org/) specifically answers the issue of SSH responsivity. The client optimistically renders what should happen on the server, and the server confirms when it can. > I'm working on the side on creating a company and those opinions lead me to choose the harder path of desktop applications which don't need Internet connection for anything that doesn't require it by definition. They're more resilient and comfortable to use. I'll probably fail, but I really can't make any other choice at the moment, I need to at least try and see for myself. Is that in line with the offline-first movement ? I can only cheer you on this journey, because constant connectivity eats our focus and our planet. I'd love to see what you come up with :)
TheRealDunkirk 5y ago
> I don't use GitHub for work, but it's always amusing to see the cries of people who do, when it does down from time to time. The ability of many companies around the world to continue operating depends on just one company continuously making the right calls. Your general point is taken, but, yet, in this particular case, git is the (or "a") perfect answer to the host not being available. Other remotes could be used to route around the failure.
- yakubin 5y ago
  Git - yes, GitHub (issue tracker + CI) - no. That's one of my favourite parts of Git actually - how much you can do offline. In the companies I've worked for so far, issue tracker and CI have been self-hosted along with the rest of company infra. One fewer point of failure.
MisterTea 5y ago
> On Spotify I keep downloading the same songs over and over again. Poisoning the environment more than if I got a CD. These days I try to buy songs to download once and then play in my favourite offline music player. I buy all of my music through bandcamp, download the FLAC files to my home server and play those. I prefer to pay an artist for their work directly or a label who might offer a physical or shirt/patch/etc. I also like the concept of buying an album because often times the album is a complete work, not a loose collection. I tried spotify for a few days and it was a poor experience as the suggestions were terrible, the selection weak, plus they barley pay small artists. No thanks.
zardo 5y ago
I tried using the Libby app, my local library system uses it for digital "loans". You can download your checkout, but the app requires an internet connection. No signal, no audiobook.
BTCOG 5y ago
Although a tad bit of a tangent, I've been fed up with the entire new past couple generations of game consoles needing to be online, and having no physical media. I've not had a gaming console since the Xbox 360 era due to this. I do not like needing to be always online to play a game, and I do not like how it can need to be patched and updated on a whim. I want to buy a game, play it how I want, and have the physical copy. I want it to be a finished product when I buy it. Devices and games (webapps, modern console games, even smart phones apps and games) that require being online, I hope to only be a fad. I won't support it. As pertains to lowtechmagazine - Love these guys, love the idea, love the minimalist culture about it. Fully support it!
- dave7 5y ago
  FWIW, the Playstation 4 and now 5 (disc edition only of course) make very sure that in the vast majority of cases, what comes on the disc is a properly working game able to be played to completion without the console ever seeing the Internet. This is not really the case on Xbox.
Breza 5y ago
The internet was designed to survive any single point of failure. Over the past 20 years, we've seen the internet become massively reliant on a handful of big players. Now when there's an outage, we see thousands of websites go down at the same time.

xena 5y ago

When those Ubisoft servers go down for good, the pirated copies of those games will be the ones preserved forever instead of the release ones.

throwaway946513 5y ago
See Driver: San Francisco One of my favorite games, if not overall favorite. It's impossible to find a new copy now. Any legal copy you find is likely only a CD-key from some reseller site, or a physical disc for PS3/Xbox 360. It's not available from Ubisoft's store, nor Steam's store (where I purchased my copy).

ehnto 5y ago

> I'm working on the side on creating a company and those opinions lead me to choose the harder path of desktop applications which don't need Internet connection for anything that doesn't require it by definition. They're more resilient and comfortable to use. I'll probably fail, but I really can't make any other choice at the moment, I need to at least try and see for myself. Very refreshing, I really appreciate that choice. As humans in tech I'm sure it's frustrating that everything requires accounts and constantly online services, since we can imagine the software working perfectly fine without it. Games are especially nefarious with account requirements, but even different work software will fail without an account. Using a modern 3D art authoring pipeline can easily have you logged in to two or three services while you work.

nextaccountic 5y ago

There are more responsive alternatives to ssh, like mosh https://mosh.org/ https://mosh.org/ (discussed recently https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28150287 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28150287) And uhm.. eternal terminal? https://eternalterminal.dev/ https://eternalterminal.dev/ (discussed in 2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21640200 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21640200) And, perhaps others? There's this article https://console.dev/articles/ssh-alternatives-for-mobile-low-latency-unreliable-connections/ https://console.dev/articles/ssh-alternatives-for-mobile-low... (edit: I just submitted it to HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29081008 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29081008)

rakoo 5y ago

Totally agree with your points, but for SSH in particular mosh (https://mosh.org/ https://mosh.org/) specifically answers the issue of SSH responsivity. The client optimistically renders what should happen on the server, and the server confirms when it can. > I'm working on the side on creating a company and those opinions lead me to choose the harder path of desktop applications which don't need Internet connection for anything that doesn't require it by definition. They're more resilient and comfortable to use. I'll probably fail, but I really can't make any other choice at the moment, I need to at least try and see for myself. Is that in line with the offline-first movement ? I can only cheer you on this journey, because constant connectivity eats our focus and our planet. I'd love to see what you come up with :)

TheRealDunkirk 5y ago

> I don't use GitHub for work, but it's always amusing to see the cries of people who do, when it does down from time to time. The ability of many companies around the world to continue operating depends on just one company continuously making the right calls. Your general point is taken, but, yet, in this particular case, git is the (or "a") perfect answer to the host not being available. Other remotes could be used to route around the failure.

yakubin 5y ago
Git - yes, GitHub (issue tracker + CI) - no. That's one of my favourite parts of Git actually - how much you can do offline. In the companies I've worked for so far, issue tracker and CI have been self-hosted along with the rest of company infra. One fewer point of failure.

MisterTea 5y ago

> On Spotify I keep downloading the same songs over and over again. Poisoning the environment more than if I got a CD. These days I try to buy songs to download once and then play in my favourite offline music player. I buy all of my music through bandcamp, download the FLAC files to my home server and play those. I prefer to pay an artist for their work directly or a label who might offer a physical or shirt/patch/etc. I also like the concept of buying an album because often times the album is a complete work, not a loose collection. I tried spotify for a few days and it was a poor experience as the suggestions were terrible, the selection weak, plus they barley pay small artists. No thanks.

zardo 5y ago

I tried using the Libby app, my local library system uses it for digital "loans". You can download your checkout, but the app requires an internet connection. No signal, no audiobook.

BTCOG 5y ago

Although a tad bit of a tangent, I've been fed up with the entire new past couple generations of game consoles needing to be online, and having no physical media. I've not had a gaming console since the Xbox 360 era due to this. I do not like needing to be always online to play a game, and I do not like how it can need to be patched and updated on a whim. I want to buy a game, play it how I want, and have the physical copy. I want it to be a finished product when I buy it. Devices and games (webapps, modern console games, even smart phones apps and games) that require being online, I hope to only be a fad. I won't support it. As pertains to lowtechmagazine - Love these guys, love the idea, love the minimalist culture about it. Fully support it!

dave7 5y ago
FWIW, the Playstation 4 and now 5 (disc edition only of course) make very sure that in the vast majority of cases, what comes on the disc is a properly working game able to be played to completion without the console ever seeing the Internet. This is not really the case on Xbox.

Breza 5y ago

The internet was designed to survive any single point of failure. Over the past 20 years, we've seen the internet become massively reliant on a handful of big players. Now when there's an outage, we see thousands of websites go down at the same time.