8 ms·

Apache Traffic Server

182 points by nuerow 5y ago

Thaxll 5y ago
Looks recent, at first I thought it was webserver from the 90's...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- mrweasel 5y ago
  I kinda forgot the Traffic Server existed. I remember we looked at it 10 years ago for a project, but just went with nginx instead. I don't think we ever really saw the point in Traffic Server, and I still don't. That might just be because it solves a set of problems I don't deal with.
- nuerow 5y ago
  > Looks recent, at first I thought it was webserver from the 90's... Well, old ideas are indeed new once everyone forgets they were a thing. Nowadays CDNs and edge caches and web accelerators are seeing a resurgence, and in practice they can mean having an instance of Apache Traffic Server deployed somewhere.
- Aachen 5y ago
  Not sure if this is what you're thinking of, but to be clear, this isn't the Apache web server (aka apache httpd or apache2).
- cstivers1978 5y ago
  This was originally “Yahoo! Traffic Server”, was developed by Yahoo! in the early 2000’s and was used in part to power Yahoo! CDN. At the time Yahoo! relied on Akamai and its own network.
  - cduzz 5y ago
    It was developed by inktomi[1]; inktomi was acquired by yahoo in the one of the great extinction events of the early internet. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inktomi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inktomi
    - redis_mlc 5y ago
      What's interesting is that I worked adjacent to the Inktomi team, and later in a group operating ATS servers. I was a senior engineer at the time, yet the Inktomi engineers were already very, very senior. Source: ex-Y!
tyingq 5y ago
Lots of choices in the this space... - this tool (apache traffic server) - regular apache can proxy/cache/route - nginx - traefik - haproxy - envoy - kong - ...more Then it also somewhat intersects with less directly related things in other spaces, like squid, varnish, istio, and so on. Is there some document somewhere that goes over the choices, overlaps, etc?
- nuerow 5y ago
  > Is there some document somewhere that goes over the choices, overlaps, etc? I believe Apache Traffic Server doesn't really compete with the likes of nginx or traefik. Apache Traffic Server is a HTTP caching server/web accelerator, thus it's specialized for caching HTTP requests and consequently it's simpler to deploy and configure. With that in mind, it competes with the likes of Squid[1] or Varnish[2]. [1] http://www.squid-cache.org/ http://www.squid-cache.org/ [2] https://varnish-cache.org/ https://varnish-cache.org/
  - tyingq 5y ago
    It does support routing via SNI. And of course, people do use nginx (and other tools) just as proxy caches. That's sort of what I was getting at, lots of overlap and sub-niches.
  - IronWolve 5y ago
    I've used varnish in the past with cdn's, never had an issue so I have not tried other cashing/load balancing products. Internally use squid with rules for non routed internal network addresses. Sounds like lots of newer products out there, maybe even better products, but you sometimes just stay with whats working due to time/budgets. Would really be interested in articles with benchmarks, pros/cons, etc on different products. Wonder why not many websites doing this for content? Sounds like a good market that needs filled.
- handrous 5y ago
  Which of those can proxy TCP, as opposed to HTTP? Haproxy can.
Semaphor 5y ago
Discussion in 2016 [0] My impression from the comments is, that at least back then, it could be faster than things like Nginx or Varnish [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10983331 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10983331
linsomniac 5y ago
Subject should be changed to "Apache Traffic Server Security Fixes" or similar. Looks like the "News" is that Nov 2 they released 8.1.3 and 9.1.1 with "security fixes". However, after digging for half an hour I can't tell what the nature of the security fix is. Changelogs and issues related to these releases don't highlight any particular security issues or what the impacts are.
- nuerow 5y ago
  > Subject should be changed to "Apache Traffic Server Security Fixes" or similar. I submitted the link before the new release with security fixes was announced, without that in mind. Moreover, the link points to the project page and not the release. I submitted because I found the project interesting but somewhat low-key, and I thought people like me would find it interesting.
  - linsomniac 5y ago
    Fair enough, but I stand by that the news is that there's a security fix.
    - nuerow 5y ago
      Yes, I agree. Happy accident and all.
dig1 5y ago
Although haproxy and nginx cover (for me) almost all use-cases I had to deal with (with OpenResty [1] as a backup), I see one place where ATS could shine: plugins. From examples [2], C API looks sane and well documented, and this is very important if you want to add some custom stuff inside your proxy server without losing your hair. And no, lua isn't the solution here ;) Those who had to deal with nginx plugins, I feel your pain... [1] https://openresty.org/en/ https://openresty.org/en/ [2] https://github.com/apache/trafficserver/tree/master/example/plugins/c-api https://github.com/apache/trafficserver/tree/master/example/...
- VWWHFSfQ 5y ago
  > And no, lua isn't the solution here why wouldn't Lua be a solution here?
  - otterley 5y ago
    Too slow for a proxy cache of ATS's caliber/audience.
    - VWWHFSfQ 5y ago
      I find that hard to believe. As far as I know, Nginx/Lua/LuaJIT still powers almost all of CloudFlares edge services. [1] https://blog.cloudflare.com/pushing-nginx-to-its-limit-with-lua/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/pushing-nginx-to-its-limit-with-... [2] https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflares-new-waf-compiling-to-lua/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflares-new-waf-compiling-to...
      - lrem 5y ago
        If YouTube finally off Python? ;)
      - fanf2 5y ago
        As I understand it, Cloudflare’s major use of LuaJIT was for their WAF, and they have recently rewritten it in Rust https://blog.cloudflare.com/new-cloudflare-waf/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/new-cloudflare-waf/
jcims 5y ago
Anyone know how it might compare to Neflix Zuul
- laurencerowe 5y ago
  Zuul is a proxy not a caching proxy IIRC.
linsomniac 5y ago
While I'm a big fan of haproxy, Apache, and nginx, I will say I also very much like trafficserver as a cache. Compared to squid, which I've always wanted to like but never really have, it is much easier to set up, and it's proven to be very reliable in our use. Specifically, I install it, point it at a large raw disk partition, and drop in my config files (largely consisting of routing rules for where to get the origin based on the request), and trafficserver just goes to town. It's a perfect use case for the ephemeral storage on virtual instances.
lumanaughty14 5y ago
Almost everyone is an end user of Apache Traffic Server without really knowing it. It is used by Yahoo, Apple, Comcast, Wikipedia, AT&T, Cox and many other companies. Some companies that use it at very large scale don't like to talk about what technologies they use.
- therein 5y ago
  Yup LinkedIn and Apple uses it very extensively. So is Yahoo. Been to many ATS meetups, even worked on atscppapi years ago. Very robust plugin capabilities.
youngtaff 5y ago
AFAIK Netlify uses Apache Traffic Server for their 'CDN' (Vercel uses nginx)
crazy5sheep 5y ago
Oh, this brought back a lot of good memory in Yahoo. This thing was originally called YTS, it has a very flexible plugin system, the caching functionality was pretty good and easy to use at the time.

182 points by nuerow 5y ago

Thaxll 5y ago

Looks recent, at first I thought it was webserver from the 90's...

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
mrweasel 5y ago
I kinda forgot the Traffic Server existed. I remember we looked at it 10 years ago for a project, but just went with nginx instead. I don't think we ever really saw the point in Traffic Server, and I still don't. That might just be because it solves a set of problems I don't deal with.
nuerow 5y ago
> Looks recent, at first I thought it was webserver from the 90's... Well, old ideas are indeed new once everyone forgets they were a thing. Nowadays CDNs and edge caches and web accelerators are seeing a resurgence, and in practice they can mean having an instance of Apache Traffic Server deployed somewhere.
Aachen 5y ago
Not sure if this is what you're thinking of, but to be clear, this isn't the Apache web server (aka apache httpd or apache2).
cstivers1978 5y ago
This was originally “Yahoo! Traffic Server”, was developed by Yahoo! in the early 2000’s and was used in part to power Yahoo! CDN. At the time Yahoo! relied on Akamai and its own network.
- cduzz 5y ago
  It was developed by inktomi[1]; inktomi was acquired by yahoo in the one of the great extinction events of the early internet. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inktomi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inktomi
  - redis_mlc 5y ago
    What's interesting is that I worked adjacent to the Inktomi team, and later in a group operating ATS servers. I was a senior engineer at the time, yet the Inktomi engineers were already very, very senior. Source: ex-Y!

tyingq 5y ago

Lots of choices in the this space... - this tool (apache traffic server) - regular apache can proxy/cache/route - nginx - traefik - haproxy - envoy - kong - ...more Then it also somewhat intersects with less directly related things in other spaces, like squid, varnish, istio, and so on. Is there some document somewhere that goes over the choices, overlaps, etc?

nuerow 5y ago
> Is there some document somewhere that goes over the choices, overlaps, etc? I believe Apache Traffic Server doesn't really compete with the likes of nginx or traefik. Apache Traffic Server is a HTTP caching server/web accelerator, thus it's specialized for caching HTTP requests and consequently it's simpler to deploy and configure. With that in mind, it competes with the likes of Squid[1] or Varnish[2]. [1] http://www.squid-cache.org/ http://www.squid-cache.org/ [2] https://varnish-cache.org/ https://varnish-cache.org/
- tyingq 5y ago
  It does support routing via SNI. And of course, people do use nginx (and other tools) just as proxy caches. That's sort of what I was getting at, lots of overlap and sub-niches.
- IronWolve 5y ago
  I've used varnish in the past with cdn's, never had an issue so I have not tried other cashing/load balancing products. Internally use squid with rules for non routed internal network addresses. Sounds like lots of newer products out there, maybe even better products, but you sometimes just stay with whats working due to time/budgets. Would really be interested in articles with benchmarks, pros/cons, etc on different products. Wonder why not many websites doing this for content? Sounds like a good market that needs filled.
handrous 5y ago
Which of those can proxy TCP, as opposed to HTTP? Haproxy can.

Semaphor 5y ago

Discussion in 2016 [0] My impression from the comments is, that at least back then, it could be faster than things like Nginx or Varnish [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10983331 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10983331

linsomniac 5y ago

Subject should be changed to "Apache Traffic Server Security Fixes" or similar. Looks like the "News" is that Nov 2 they released 8.1.3 and 9.1.1 with "security fixes". However, after digging for half an hour I can't tell what the nature of the security fix is. Changelogs and issues related to these releases don't highlight any particular security issues or what the impacts are.

nuerow 5y ago
> Subject should be changed to "Apache Traffic Server Security Fixes" or similar. I submitted the link before the new release with security fixes was announced, without that in mind. Moreover, the link points to the project page and not the release. I submitted because I found the project interesting but somewhat low-key, and I thought people like me would find it interesting.
- linsomniac 5y ago
  Fair enough, but I stand by that the news is that there's a security fix.
  - nuerow 5y ago
    Yes, I agree. Happy accident and all.

dig1 5y ago

Although haproxy and nginx cover (for me) almost all use-cases I had to deal with (with OpenResty [1] as a backup), I see one place where ATS could shine: plugins. From examples [2], C API looks sane and well documented, and this is very important if you want to add some custom stuff inside your proxy server without losing your hair. And no, lua isn't the solution here ;) Those who had to deal with nginx plugins, I feel your pain... [1] https://openresty.org/en/ https://openresty.org/en/ [2] https://github.com/apache/trafficserver/tree/master/example/plugins/c-api https://github.com/apache/trafficserver/tree/master/example/...

VWWHFSfQ 5y ago
> And no, lua isn't the solution here why wouldn't Lua be a solution here?
- otterley 5y ago
  Too slow for a proxy cache of ATS's caliber/audience.
  - VWWHFSfQ 5y ago
    I find that hard to believe. As far as I know, Nginx/Lua/LuaJIT still powers almost all of CloudFlares edge services. [1] https://blog.cloudflare.com/pushing-nginx-to-its-limit-with-lua/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/pushing-nginx-to-its-limit-with-... [2] https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflares-new-waf-compiling-to-lua/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflares-new-waf-compiling-to...
    - lrem 5y ago
      If YouTube finally off Python? ;)
    - fanf2 5y ago
      As I understand it, Cloudflare’s major use of LuaJIT was for their WAF, and they have recently rewritten it in Rust https://blog.cloudflare.com/new-cloudflare-waf/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/new-cloudflare-waf/

jcims 5y ago

Anyone know how it might compare to Neflix Zuul

laurencerowe 5y ago
Zuul is a proxy not a caching proxy IIRC.

linsomniac 5y ago

While I'm a big fan of haproxy, Apache, and nginx, I will say I also very much like trafficserver as a cache. Compared to squid, which I've always wanted to like but never really have, it is much easier to set up, and it's proven to be very reliable in our use. Specifically, I install it, point it at a large raw disk partition, and drop in my config files (largely consisting of routing rules for where to get the origin based on the request), and trafficserver just goes to town. It's a perfect use case for the ephemeral storage on virtual instances.

lumanaughty14 5y ago

Almost everyone is an end user of Apache Traffic Server without really knowing it. It is used by Yahoo, Apple, Comcast, Wikipedia, AT&T, Cox and many other companies. Some companies that use it at very large scale don't like to talk about what technologies they use.

therein 5y ago
Yup LinkedIn and Apple uses it very extensively. So is Yahoo. Been to many ATS meetups, even worked on atscppapi years ago. Very robust plugin capabilities.

youngtaff 5y ago

AFAIK Netlify uses Apache Traffic Server for their 'CDN' (Vercel uses nginx)

crazy5sheep 5y ago

Oh, this brought back a lot of good memory in Yahoo. This thing was originally called YTS, it has a very flexible plugin system, the caching functionality was pretty good and easy to use at the time.