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wtf "You will provide information or other materials related to Your Content (including copies of any client-side applications) as reasonably requested by us t

by qaq 5y ago

wtf "You will provide information or other materials related to Your Content (including copies of any client-side applications) as reasonably requested by us to verify your compliance with the Agreement."

Semaphor 5y ago
That is apparently not a new clause.
- qaq 5y ago
  Honestly didn't pay much attention since I do not host my stuff on AWS and presumably this was vetted by legal of companies that do use AWS.
  - taneq 5y ago
    Sometimes companies will try to get you to accept blatantly one-sided “standard terms” and then drop the requirement if queried. One new client wanted us to accept full liability for any damages incurred by their upstream client due to any delays in our delivery. We just said “uh, no?!” and they said “oh okay never mind.”
YPPH 5y ago
Hopefully that "reasonably" in "reasonably requested" has some work to do. I don't think going on a fishing expedition is reasonable, on the other hand if they have evidence suggesting you are not in compliance with the agreement that is more likely to be reasonable.
- qaq 5y ago
  Does "reasonably" have any legal meaning beyond sounding less evil?
  - londons_explore 5y ago
    Yes. without the word, you must do it, or be found in breach of the agreement, even if the request was unreasonable. With the word, you wouldn't be in breach if a court found the request unreasonable.
    - qaq 5y ago
      Wonder how big of a deterrent is it given AWS can terminate your service
  - YPPH 5y ago
    "Reasonably requested" has a very different complexion to "requested". Not an American lawyer, but on the face of it, it looks like an objective question (what a reasonable person would regard as reasonable, rather than what Amazon subjectively regards as reasonable). I could be wrong. It's ultimately up to a court.
  - qaq 5y ago
    "Reasonably Request means a request for information or actions that is reasonably made by the requesting party and that can reasonably be provided or performed by the furnishing party without significant effort or expense; provided, that in the event that the furnishing party believes that the requested information or actions cannot be provided or performed without significant effort or expense, the furnishing party and the requesting party shall confer in good faith to agree upon appropriate consideration for the furnishing party to provide such information or perform such actions."
aborsy 5y ago
I thought AWS is one of the most privacy respecting companies. Elsewhere they say we don’t look at your data. Here they indicate, not only we look at your data to verify your compliance, but we may even ask client side applications not held on our data centers. Weird, if you ask me!
- YetAnotherNick 5y ago
  > they say we don’t look at your data. They legally can't say that. Any source?
  - aborsy 5y ago
    Number one item in their privacy policy: https://aws.amazon.com/compliance/data-privacy-faq/ https://aws.amazon.com/compliance/data-privacy-faq/ Access: We do not access or use your content for any purpose without your agreement. We never use your content or derive information from it for marketing or advertising purposes. Apart from that, in general in their communications they are clear that they don’t access customers data, unless ordered by law enforcement/court. Admittedly, deciphering the language could be tricky.
    - nitrogen 5y ago
      We do not access or use your content for any purpose without your agreement. Did you agree to the TOS?
      - taylorportman 5y ago
        Then you are agreeing that they will not access or use your data without agreement. Where is the confusion lol.
      - aborsy 5y ago
        Depends on the meaning of this sentence, as I alluded to. I expect that this sentence reasonably means, if we want to access your content, first we will email you and obtain your permission in each case. The AWS privacy policy that I linked (TOS?) is quite clear. Where does it say that AWS has unconditional access to customers data (in which case the rest of policy is redundant)? It indicates the opposite, although as I said, there is room for arguments.

by qaq 5y ago

Semaphor 5y ago

That is apparently not a new clause.

qaq 5y ago
Honestly didn't pay much attention since I do not host my stuff on AWS and presumably this was vetted by legal of companies that do use AWS.
- taneq 5y ago
  Sometimes companies will try to get you to accept blatantly one-sided “standard terms” and then drop the requirement if queried. One new client wanted us to accept full liability for any damages incurred by their upstream client due to any delays in our delivery. We just said “uh, no?!” and they said “oh okay never mind.”

YPPH 5y ago

Hopefully that "reasonably" in "reasonably requested" has some work to do. I don't think going on a fishing expedition is reasonable, on the other hand if they have evidence suggesting you are not in compliance with the agreement that is more likely to be reasonable.

qaq 5y ago
Does "reasonably" have any legal meaning beyond sounding less evil?
- londons_explore 5y ago
  Yes. without the word, you must do it, or be found in breach of the agreement, even if the request was unreasonable. With the word, you wouldn't be in breach if a court found the request unreasonable.
  - qaq 5y ago
    Wonder how big of a deterrent is it given AWS can terminate your service
- YPPH 5y ago
  "Reasonably requested" has a very different complexion to "requested". Not an American lawyer, but on the face of it, it looks like an objective question (what a reasonable person would regard as reasonable, rather than what Amazon subjectively regards as reasonable). I could be wrong. It's ultimately up to a court.
- qaq 5y ago
  "Reasonably Request means a request for information or actions that is reasonably made by the requesting party and that can reasonably be provided or performed by the furnishing party without significant effort or expense; provided, that in the event that the furnishing party believes that the requested information or actions cannot be provided or performed without significant effort or expense, the furnishing party and the requesting party shall confer in good faith to agree upon appropriate consideration for the furnishing party to provide such information or perform such actions."

aborsy 5y ago

I thought AWS is one of the most privacy respecting companies. Elsewhere they say we don’t look at your data. Here they indicate, not only we look at your data to verify your compliance, but we may even ask client side applications not held on our data centers. Weird, if you ask me!

YetAnotherNick 5y ago
> they say we don’t look at your data. They legally can't say that. Any source?
- aborsy 5y ago
  Number one item in their privacy policy: https://aws.amazon.com/compliance/data-privacy-faq/ https://aws.amazon.com/compliance/data-privacy-faq/ Access: We do not access or use your content for any purpose without your agreement. We never use your content or derive information from it for marketing or advertising purposes. Apart from that, in general in their communications they are clear that they don’t access customers data, unless ordered by law enforcement/court. Admittedly, deciphering the language could be tricky.
  - nitrogen 5y ago
    We do not access or use your content for any purpose without your agreement. Did you agree to the TOS?
    - taylorportman 5y ago
      Then you are agreeing that they will not access or use your data without agreement. Where is the confusion lol.
    - aborsy 5y ago
      Depends on the meaning of this sentence, as I alluded to. I expect that this sentence reasonably means, if we want to access your content, first we will email you and obtain your permission in each case. The AWS privacy policy that I linked (TOS?) is quite clear. Where does it say that AWS has unconditional access to customers data (in which case the rest of policy is redundant)? It indicates the opposite, although as I said, there is room for arguments.