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One benefit of Tesla (for Tesla inc) opening up their charging network is it provides less incentive for other providers to create new charging points. Tesla ha

One benefit of Tesla (for Tesla inc) opening up their charging network is it provides less incentive for other providers to create new charging points. Tesla have plenty incentive as they are by far the dominant charging provider currently and can continue to expand potentially realising a monopoly on charging infrastructure. If they end up with such a huge lead over the patchwork of competitors then it’s going to give them loads of leverage.

jillesvangurp 5y ago
They get to leverage their early investment here. It's not going to be a loss leading enterprise either. Which is why there will be more players. Most highway fueling stations, if they haven't already, will be installing charging infrastructure. Likewise for malls, super markets, any commercial operation with parking lots basically. This will be demand driven rather than opportunistic. But it will happen nonetheless.
- victorbojica 5y ago
  I'm on the fence about this. On one hand this would be a new revenue stream (even if a small one). On the other hand, fuelling stations installing chargers might be seen as cannibalizing their own market. I think there will be some time until we see those unfortunately. They will probably be the last to do it.
  - lamchob 5y ago
    I Think esp. fuelling stations along high-ways will improve their charging infrastructure. A lot of their revenue is non-food stuff like coffee and snacks. And longer wait times during charging could lead to more revenue there.
  - wongarsu 5y ago
    Electric charging stations might drive a lot of traffic for restaurants or shops integrated into the highway station due to the charging time.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    Gas stations don't make money on the gas (with some exceptions for stations with fairly captive customer bases or in prime locations). Gas is just a break even to get you in the door. Some % of gas customers get converted to convenience store customers and that's where all the money is made.
  - worrycue 5y ago
    I doubt they will care whether they are selling energy to you in the form of gasoline or electricity, as long as they make a buck. It’s like saying telecoms won’t provide internet services because it might eat into SMS and phone call fees. So far that hasn’t been true - where I stay at least.
    - oblio 5y ago
      > It’s like saying telecoms won’t provide internet services because it might eat into SMS and phone call fees. So far that hasn’t been true - where I stay at least. This has definitely happened, worldwide, and it's still happening. Crap mobile internet quotas, for example.
  - throw0101a 5y ago
    > On the other hand, fuelling stations installing chargers might be seen as cannibalizing their own market. It's probably better to cannibalize your own market share than have the revenue go to a competitor.
  - mrobins 5y ago
    That’ll turn out like Kodak inventing the digital camera and shoving it in a drawer.
  - jillesvangurp 5y ago
    There's nothing to be on the fence about here; plenty of existing businesses that have already validated that they are getting a lot of use of their existing charging investments. For a petrol station. There's nothing to cannibalize. They can either watch all the EVs drive past to the next charging + pit stop opportunity or accommodate those customers and have them in their shops, rest rooms, restaurants, etc. Petrol isn't their core business in any case. Easy choice if you want the business. The rest is just economical Darwinism. Anyone driving a car for work is likely to be switching sooner rather than later; in some countries that process is already pretty far completed with e.g. leasing companies preferring evs for cost and other reasons. EV sales have hit double digit percentages in many countries and the number of countries where that is over 50% is also growing. So, easy choice for most petrol stations. More a question of when and how many than if for most of them.
mschuster91 5y ago
Actually, it provides more incentive for others to build out networks. Tesla is inarguably the leader for fast charger availability, but the problem is that drivers of other electric vehicles are anxious to purchase EVs because "free for all" chargers are still a rarity outside of urban areas. Now, with access to the Supercharger network at competitive rates, more people can decide to buy an electric vehicle, which in turn provides utilities and other infrastructure vendors with more security that they can actually recoup their investments into chargers. Additionally, opening up the network should be beneficial for Tesla's cash flow - not that they'd need it these days, though.
- hef19898 5y ago
  Positive cash-flows effects are always needed. Feeling you don't is dangerous, positive cash-flow is what keeps a company in default alive territory.
  - Closi 5y ago
    Not really, Tesla has $18 billion cash on hand and an established business model that works without opening up the chargers. That means they have the equivalent of more than 6 months of revenue on hand in cash because of the amount of capital they have managed to raise. Not only that, but their core business model is pulling a profit anyway. Cash flow is not a particular concern for Tesla right now, they are cash-rich.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - hef19898 5y ago
      Cash-flow after investing activities is not really a thing, unless of course you are looking at companies from a VC-funded SV perspective. Just because you don't need additional cash-flow now doesn't mean you don't need it later. And positive cash-flow allows you to get additional loans, and re-pay those, when needed.
    - Reason077 5y ago
juanani 5y ago
I get why you'd lick your eyeballs for 'leverage' if you hold stock.. but I dont get how this is good for consumers/plebs? A corporation is the only one that benefits, seeing how major Western corps keep damaging our environment, I'd prefer we keep our corporate overlords with equal power.. but hey good for you your 'team' might get leverage. yahoo
apexalpha 5y ago
The Netherlands is home to 30% of all public EV chargers in the entire European Union. [0] They are in no way the "dominant charging provider", probably not even for Tesla's. What's more likely is that there are so many public and private EV chargers in the Netherlands that the superchargers sit mostly idle and Tesla needs to open them up to try and recoup some of the capex. [0] https://www.acea.auto/press-release/risk-of-two-track-europe-for-e-mobility-with-sharp-divisions-in-roll-out-of-chargers-auto-industry-warns/ https://www.acea.auto/press-release/risk-of-two-track-europe...
- davedx 5y ago
  You started with providing a source, then go on to make an unsubstantiated claim about Dutch supercharger use? Whenever I've plugged my Model 3 in at superchargers in the Netherlands, they're not mostly idle.
  - apexalpha 5y ago
    I was trying to say that the claim above me about Tesla wanting to build a "charging monopoly" make no sense whatsoever in the Dutch market. Furthermore, the few times I've been to a fast charger they were mostly empty or at least not full. Most of the people at my work (who have Tesla's) also rarely visit them because you can charge pretty much everywhere. No need to for a detour if you can just charge at your destination or at home. Granted, this is still anecdotal, but would Tesla open their superchargers if they didn't have excess capacity? I think probably not, and therefor my theory seems more likely than trying to build a charging monopoly in the country with the most chargers in the EU.
oblio 5y ago
> Tesla have plenty incentive as they are by far the dominant charging provider currently and can continue to expand potentially realising a monopoly on charging infrastructure. If they end up with such a huge lead over the patchwork of competitors then it’s going to give them loads of leverage. Do you have any source for this? From what I see Ionity (https://ionity.eu/ https://ionity.eu/) has around 400 stations and Tesla has around 600. So the difference is not crushing. Plus Ionity has huge backers: https://ionity.eu/en/about.html https://ionity.eu/en/about.html
- guerby 5y ago
  https://insideevs.com/news/454268/ionity-300-fast-charging-stations-europe/ https://insideevs.com/news/454268/ionity-300-fast-charging-s... "On the other hand, the number of 1,211 chargers" ionity has 4 stalls per station on average https://insideevs.com/news/496754/europe-600-tesla-supercharging-stations/ https://insideevs.com/news/496754/europe-600-tesla-superchar... "The number of Tesla Supercharging stations in Europe has recently exceeded 600 in 27 countries (with more than 6,000 individual charging stalls). On average, that's 10 stalls per station." The other thing in practical experience is that tesla superchargers are super reliable and ionity not so much.

jillesvangurp 5y ago

They get to leverage their early investment here. It's not going to be a loss leading enterprise either. Which is why there will be more players. Most highway fueling stations, if they haven't already, will be installing charging infrastructure. Likewise for malls, super markets, any commercial operation with parking lots basically. This will be demand driven rather than opportunistic. But it will happen nonetheless.

victorbojica 5y ago
I'm on the fence about this. On one hand this would be a new revenue stream (even if a small one). On the other hand, fuelling stations installing chargers might be seen as cannibalizing their own market. I think there will be some time until we see those unfortunately. They will probably be the last to do it.
- lamchob 5y ago
  I Think esp. fuelling stations along high-ways will improve their charging infrastructure. A lot of their revenue is non-food stuff like coffee and snacks. And longer wait times during charging could lead to more revenue there.
- wongarsu 5y ago
  Electric charging stations might drive a lot of traffic for restaurants or shops integrated into the highway station due to the charging time.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  Gas stations don't make money on the gas (with some exceptions for stations with fairly captive customer bases or in prime locations). Gas is just a break even to get you in the door. Some % of gas customers get converted to convenience store customers and that's where all the money is made.
- worrycue 5y ago
  I doubt they will care whether they are selling energy to you in the form of gasoline or electricity, as long as they make a buck. It’s like saying telecoms won’t provide internet services because it might eat into SMS and phone call fees. So far that hasn’t been true - where I stay at least.
  - oblio 5y ago
    > It’s like saying telecoms won’t provide internet services because it might eat into SMS and phone call fees. So far that hasn’t been true - where I stay at least. This has definitely happened, worldwide, and it's still happening. Crap mobile internet quotas, for example.
- throw0101a 5y ago
  > On the other hand, fuelling stations installing chargers might be seen as cannibalizing their own market. It's probably better to cannibalize your own market share than have the revenue go to a competitor.
- mrobins 5y ago
  That’ll turn out like Kodak inventing the digital camera and shoving it in a drawer.
- jillesvangurp 5y ago
  There's nothing to be on the fence about here; plenty of existing businesses that have already validated that they are getting a lot of use of their existing charging investments. For a petrol station. There's nothing to cannibalize. They can either watch all the EVs drive past to the next charging + pit stop opportunity or accommodate those customers and have them in their shops, rest rooms, restaurants, etc. Petrol isn't their core business in any case. Easy choice if you want the business. The rest is just economical Darwinism. Anyone driving a car for work is likely to be switching sooner rather than later; in some countries that process is already pretty far completed with e.g. leasing companies preferring evs for cost and other reasons. EV sales have hit double digit percentages in many countries and the number of countries where that is over 50% is also growing. So, easy choice for most petrol stations. More a question of when and how many than if for most of them.

mschuster91 5y ago

Actually, it provides more incentive for others to build out networks. Tesla is inarguably the leader for fast charger availability, but the problem is that drivers of other electric vehicles are anxious to purchase EVs because "free for all" chargers are still a rarity outside of urban areas. Now, with access to the Supercharger network at competitive rates, more people can decide to buy an electric vehicle, which in turn provides utilities and other infrastructure vendors with more security that they can actually recoup their investments into chargers. Additionally, opening up the network should be beneficial for Tesla's cash flow - not that they'd need it these days, though.

hef19898 5y ago
Positive cash-flows effects are always needed. Feeling you don't is dangerous, positive cash-flow is what keeps a company in default alive territory.
- Closi 5y ago
  Not really, Tesla has $18 billion cash on hand and an established business model that works without opening up the chargers. That means they have the equivalent of more than 6 months of revenue on hand in cash because of the amount of capital they have managed to raise. Not only that, but their core business model is pulling a profit anyway. Cash flow is not a particular concern for Tesla right now, they are cash-rich.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - hef19898 5y ago
    Cash-flow after investing activities is not really a thing, unless of course you are looking at companies from a VC-funded SV perspective. Just because you don't need additional cash-flow now doesn't mean you don't need it later. And positive cash-flow allows you to get additional loans, and re-pay those, when needed.
  - Reason077 5y ago

juanani 5y ago

I get why you'd lick your eyeballs for 'leverage' if you hold stock.. but I dont get how this is good for consumers/plebs? A corporation is the only one that benefits, seeing how major Western corps keep damaging our environment, I'd prefer we keep our corporate overlords with equal power.. but hey good for you your 'team' might get leverage. yahoo

apexalpha 5y ago

The Netherlands is home to 30% of all public EV chargers in the entire European Union. [0] They are in no way the "dominant charging provider", probably not even for Tesla's. What's more likely is that there are so many public and private EV chargers in the Netherlands that the superchargers sit mostly idle and Tesla needs to open them up to try and recoup some of the capex. [0] https://www.acea.auto/press-release/risk-of-two-track-europe-for-e-mobility-with-sharp-divisions-in-roll-out-of-chargers-auto-industry-warns/ https://www.acea.auto/press-release/risk-of-two-track-europe...

davedx 5y ago
You started with providing a source, then go on to make an unsubstantiated claim about Dutch supercharger use? Whenever I've plugged my Model 3 in at superchargers in the Netherlands, they're not mostly idle.
- apexalpha 5y ago
  I was trying to say that the claim above me about Tesla wanting to build a "charging monopoly" make no sense whatsoever in the Dutch market. Furthermore, the few times I've been to a fast charger they were mostly empty or at least not full. Most of the people at my work (who have Tesla's) also rarely visit them because you can charge pretty much everywhere. No need to for a detour if you can just charge at your destination or at home. Granted, this is still anecdotal, but would Tesla open their superchargers if they didn't have excess capacity? I think probably not, and therefor my theory seems more likely than trying to build a charging monopoly in the country with the most chargers in the EU.

oblio 5y ago

> Tesla have plenty incentive as they are by far the dominant charging provider currently and can continue to expand potentially realising a monopoly on charging infrastructure. If they end up with such a huge lead over the patchwork of competitors then it’s going to give them loads of leverage. Do you have any source for this? From what I see Ionity (https://ionity.eu/ https://ionity.eu/) has around 400 stations and Tesla has around 600. So the difference is not crushing. Plus Ionity has huge backers: https://ionity.eu/en/about.html https://ionity.eu/en/about.html

guerby 5y ago
https://insideevs.com/news/454268/ionity-300-fast-charging-stations-europe/ https://insideevs.com/news/454268/ionity-300-fast-charging-s... "On the other hand, the number of 1,211 chargers" ionity has 4 stalls per station on average https://insideevs.com/news/496754/europe-600-tesla-supercharging-stations/ https://insideevs.com/news/496754/europe-600-tesla-superchar... "The number of Tesla Supercharging stations in Europe has recently exceeded 600 in 27 countries (with more than 6,000 individual charging stalls). On average, that's 10 stalls per station." The other thing in practical experience is that tesla superchargers are super reliable and ionity not so much.