6 ms·

AWS Service Terms 42.10

52 points by vbezhenar 5y ago

qaq 5y ago
wtf "You will provide information or other materials related to Your Content (including copies of any client-side applications) as reasonably requested by us to verify your compliance with the Agreement."
- Semaphor 5y ago
  That is apparently not a new clause.
  - qaq 5y ago
    Honestly didn't pay much attention since I do not host my stuff on AWS and presumably this was vetted by legal of companies that do use AWS.
    - taneq 5y ago
      Sometimes companies will try to get you to accept blatantly one-sided “standard terms” and then drop the requirement if queried. One new client wanted us to accept full liability for any damages incurred by their upstream client due to any delays in our delivery. We just said “uh, no?!” and they said “oh okay never mind.”
- YPPH 5y ago
  Hopefully that "reasonably" in "reasonably requested" has some work to do. I don't think going on a fishing expedition is reasonable, on the other hand if they have evidence suggesting you are not in compliance with the agreement that is more likely to be reasonable.
  - qaq 5y ago
    Does "reasonably" have any legal meaning beyond sounding less evil?
    - londons_explore 5y ago
      Yes. without the word, you must do it, or be found in breach of the agreement, even if the request was unreasonable. With the word, you wouldn't be in breach if a court found the request unreasonable.
      - qaq 5y ago
        Wonder how big of a deterrent is it given AWS can terminate your service
    - YPPH 5y ago
      "Reasonably requested" has a very different complexion to "requested". Not an American lawyer, but on the face of it, it looks like an objective question (what a reasonable person would regard as reasonable, rather than what Amazon subjectively regards as reasonable). I could be wrong. It's ultimately up to a court.
    - qaq 5y ago
      "Reasonably Request means a request for information or actions that is reasonably made by the requesting party and that can reasonably be provided or performed by the furnishing party without significant effort or expense; provided, that in the event that the furnishing party believes that the requested information or actions cannot be provided or performed without significant effort or expense, the furnishing party and the requesting party shall confer in good faith to agree upon appropriate consideration for the furnishing party to provide such information or perform such actions."
- aborsy 5y ago
  I thought AWS is one of the most privacy respecting companies. Elsewhere they say we don’t look at your data. Here they indicate, not only we look at your data to verify your compliance, but we may even ask client side applications not held on our data centers. Weird, if you ask me!
  - YetAnotherNick 5y ago
    > they say we don’t look at your data. They legally can't say that. Any source?
    - aborsy 5y ago
      Number one item in their privacy policy: https://aws.amazon.com/compliance/data-privacy-faq/ https://aws.amazon.com/compliance/data-privacy-faq/ Access: We do not access or use your content for any purpose without your agreement. We never use your content or derive information from it for marketing or advertising purposes. Apart from that, in general in their communications they are clear that they don’t access customers data, unless ordered by law enforcement/court. Admittedly, deciphering the language could be tricky.
      - nitrogen 5y ago
        We do not access or use your content for any purpose without your agreement. Did you agree to the TOS?
        taylorportman 5y ago
        Then you are agreeing that they will not access or use your data without agreement. Where is the confusion lol.
        aborsy 5y ago
        Depends on the meaning of this sentence, as I alluded to. I expect that this sentence reasonably means, if we want to access your content, first we will email you and obtain your permission in each case. The AWS privacy policy that I linked (TOS?) is quite clear. Where does it say that AWS has unconditional access to customers data (in which case the rest of policy is redundant)? It indicates the opposite, although as I said, there is room for arguments.
jasode 5y ago
A 2019 article had examples of more EULA "Easter Eggs" and the AWS acceptable use exemption for a zombie apocalypse was mentioned: https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/10-ridiculous-eula-clauses-agreed/ https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/10-ridiculous-eula-clauses-agr...
jcims 5y ago
Previous release according to previous release list at bottom of the page https://aws.amazon.com/service-terms/historical/2020-03-23/ https://aws.amazon.com/service-terms/historical/2020-03-23/
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
cpach 5y ago
Any significant changes?
Toutouxc 5y ago
[flagged]
- oblio 5y ago
  I'm probably going to regret this, but in crazy-land, what's 42.10 supposed to stand for? Also: https://miro.medium.com/max/1400/1*6Mb77VynJBVfTeqaRs3cVw.jpeg https://miro.medium.com/max/1400/1*6Mb77VynJBVfTeqaRs3cVw.jp...
  - jasode 5y ago
    42.10 is the numbered clause. Ctrl+F and search for "42.10". If your web browser might supports it, here's a text fragment link that auto highlights the relevant portion: https://aws.amazon.com/service-terms/#:~:text=this%20restriction%20will%20not%20apply%20in%20the%20event%20of%20the%20occurrence%20(certified%20by%20the%20United%20States%20Centers%20for%20Disease%20Control%20or%20successor%20body)%20of%20a%20widespread%20viral%20infection%20transmitted%20via%20bites%20or%20contact%20with%20bodily%20fluids%20that%20causes%20human%20corpses%20to%20reanimate%20and%20seek%20to%20consume%20living%20human%20flesh https://aws.amazon.com/service-terms/#:~:text=this%20restric...
    - YetAnotherNick 5y ago
      Off question, buy how did you generate link like this? Seems really useful.
      - madjam002 5y ago
        Right click text in Chrome and select "Copy link to highlight"
      - jasode 5y ago
        >Off question, buy how did you generate link like this? I just manually created it using the following syntax: https://wicg.github.io/scroll-to-text-fragment#syntax https://wicg.github.io/scroll-to-text-fragment#syntax It's a relatively new feature (April 2020) and it looks like only the Chrome-based browsers (i.e. MS Edge, Opera) currently support it: https://caniuse.com/url-scroll-to-text-fragment https://caniuse.com/url-scroll-to-text-fragment
diggan 5y ago
I've generated and uploaded a git patch to gist.github.com so you could easier see the changes: https://gist.github.com/victorb/d51151a71bbc2cea8db27e115ab5cf16 https://gist.github.com/victorb/d51151a71bbc2cea8db27e115ab5... I'm sure there is some service that offers this on the fly, but quick search didn't reveal anything of interest that you could use for free. Thanks jcims for the link to the previous terms :)
- diggan 5y ago
  One interesting addition: > +50.9. Amazon has implemented a moratorium on use of Amazon Rekognition’s face comparison feature by police departments in connection with criminal investigations. This moratorium does not apply to use of Amazon Rekognition’s face comparison feature to help identify or locate missing persons. For more information, see our announcement on our Amazon Day One Blog.
fartcannon 5y ago
You know you can host your own servers, right? Its actually a lot easier than using AWS, too.
- fulafel 5y ago
  In a lot of orgs, you are allowed to use AWS but only "IT" can host their own servers, and they are hard to deal with. This I also a major rarely spoken factor for the success of AWS.
- barbazoo 5y ago
  Is it actually a lot easier? By what metric? I'm assuming when you say "host your own servers" you mean actual hardware, right? So getting the hardware, setting it up, hooking it up, reliably, to power and the internet, physically securing it, maintaining hardware, that's "a lot easier" than using a couple EC2 instances across availability zones?
  - fartcannon 5y ago
    Yes. You can either learn and use a locked in, vender specific service, or you can learn and use the same tools they use.
- jeffwask 5y ago
  LOL
darksaints 5y ago
To anybody out there that thinks AWS is a good company to rely on: just look at that version number. And if you want an analogy for what being their customer will be like 5 years from now, you can compare the customer service experience of Amazon.com 5 years ago with their customer service today. 5 years ago: sorry your package arrived late, here's a free month of Amazon prime to make up for it. Today: I don't really care if your package arrived late. Check again in a couple days, most of the time packages just magically show up a few days later than when we said they'd arrive.
- barbazoo 5y ago
  Personal anecdote, had ordered fairly expensive headphones the other day, I wasn't home yet their tracking said "handed to resident". Customer support said that happens sometimes and the package will probably still arrive within the next 2 days. Yeah sure. Didn't happen, they sent me another pair. It's awful how much waste and theft there is in this system and I feel terrible to occasionally be a part of that.
  - jeffwask 5y ago
    There was a really interesting article on returns the other day and the massive waste in the online shopping space. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/free-returns-online-shopping/620169/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/free-re...
- vegasje 5y ago
  The number in the title is referencing a clause in the terms, not stating the version number of the terms.

52 points by vbezhenar 5y ago

qaq 5y ago

wtf "You will provide information or other materials related to Your Content (including copies of any client-side applications) as reasonably requested by us to verify your compliance with the Agreement."

Semaphor 5y ago
That is apparently not a new clause.
- qaq 5y ago
  Honestly didn't pay much attention since I do not host my stuff on AWS and presumably this was vetted by legal of companies that do use AWS.
  - taneq 5y ago
    Sometimes companies will try to get you to accept blatantly one-sided “standard terms” and then drop the requirement if queried. One new client wanted us to accept full liability for any damages incurred by their upstream client due to any delays in our delivery. We just said “uh, no?!” and they said “oh okay never mind.”
YPPH 5y ago
Hopefully that "reasonably" in "reasonably requested" has some work to do. I don't think going on a fishing expedition is reasonable, on the other hand if they have evidence suggesting you are not in compliance with the agreement that is more likely to be reasonable.
- qaq 5y ago
  Does "reasonably" have any legal meaning beyond sounding less evil?
  - londons_explore 5y ago
    Yes. without the word, you must do it, or be found in breach of the agreement, even if the request was unreasonable. With the word, you wouldn't be in breach if a court found the request unreasonable.
    - qaq 5y ago
      Wonder how big of a deterrent is it given AWS can terminate your service
  - YPPH 5y ago
    "Reasonably requested" has a very different complexion to "requested". Not an American lawyer, but on the face of it, it looks like an objective question (what a reasonable person would regard as reasonable, rather than what Amazon subjectively regards as reasonable). I could be wrong. It's ultimately up to a court.
  - qaq 5y ago
    "Reasonably Request means a request for information or actions that is reasonably made by the requesting party and that can reasonably be provided or performed by the furnishing party without significant effort or expense; provided, that in the event that the furnishing party believes that the requested information or actions cannot be provided or performed without significant effort or expense, the furnishing party and the requesting party shall confer in good faith to agree upon appropriate consideration for the furnishing party to provide such information or perform such actions."
aborsy 5y ago
I thought AWS is one of the most privacy respecting companies. Elsewhere they say we don’t look at your data. Here they indicate, not only we look at your data to verify your compliance, but we may even ask client side applications not held on our data centers. Weird, if you ask me!
- YetAnotherNick 5y ago
  > they say we don’t look at your data. They legally can't say that. Any source?
  - aborsy 5y ago
    Number one item in their privacy policy: https://aws.amazon.com/compliance/data-privacy-faq/ https://aws.amazon.com/compliance/data-privacy-faq/ Access: We do not access or use your content for any purpose without your agreement. We never use your content or derive information from it for marketing or advertising purposes. Apart from that, in general in their communications they are clear that they don’t access customers data, unless ordered by law enforcement/court. Admittedly, deciphering the language could be tricky.
    - nitrogen 5y ago
      We do not access or use your content for any purpose without your agreement. Did you agree to the TOS?
      - taylorportman 5y ago
        Then you are agreeing that they will not access or use your data without agreement. Where is the confusion lol.
      - aborsy 5y ago
        Depends on the meaning of this sentence, as I alluded to. I expect that this sentence reasonably means, if we want to access your content, first we will email you and obtain your permission in each case. The AWS privacy policy that I linked (TOS?) is quite clear. Where does it say that AWS has unconditional access to customers data (in which case the rest of policy is redundant)? It indicates the opposite, although as I said, there is room for arguments.

jasode 5y ago

A 2019 article had examples of more EULA "Easter Eggs" and the AWS acceptable use exemption for a zombie apocalypse was mentioned: https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/10-ridiculous-eula-clauses-agreed/ https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/10-ridiculous-eula-clauses-agr...

jcims 5y ago

Previous release according to previous release list at bottom of the page https://aws.amazon.com/service-terms/historical/2020-03-23/ https://aws.amazon.com/service-terms/historical/2020-03-23/

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

cpach 5y ago

Any significant changes?

Toutouxc 5y ago

[flagged]

oblio 5y ago
I'm probably going to regret this, but in crazy-land, what's 42.10 supposed to stand for? Also: https://miro.medium.com/max/1400/1*6Mb77VynJBVfTeqaRs3cVw.jpeg https://miro.medium.com/max/1400/1*6Mb77VynJBVfTeqaRs3cVw.jp...
- jasode 5y ago
  42.10 is the numbered clause. Ctrl+F and search for "42.10". If your web browser might supports it, here's a text fragment link that auto highlights the relevant portion: https://aws.amazon.com/service-terms/#:~:text=this%20restriction%20will%20not%20apply%20in%20the%20event%20of%20the%20occurrence%20(certified%20by%20the%20United%20States%20Centers%20for%20Disease%20Control%20or%20successor%20body)%20of%20a%20widespread%20viral%20infection%20transmitted%20via%20bites%20or%20contact%20with%20bodily%20fluids%20that%20causes%20human%20corpses%20to%20reanimate%20and%20seek%20to%20consume%20living%20human%20flesh https://aws.amazon.com/service-terms/#:~:text=this%20restric...
  - YetAnotherNick 5y ago
    Off question, buy how did you generate link like this? Seems really useful.
    - madjam002 5y ago
      Right click text in Chrome and select "Copy link to highlight"
    - jasode 5y ago
      >Off question, buy how did you generate link like this? I just manually created it using the following syntax: https://wicg.github.io/scroll-to-text-fragment#syntax https://wicg.github.io/scroll-to-text-fragment#syntax It's a relatively new feature (April 2020) and it looks like only the Chrome-based browsers (i.e. MS Edge, Opera) currently support it: https://caniuse.com/url-scroll-to-text-fragment https://caniuse.com/url-scroll-to-text-fragment

diggan 5y ago

I've generated and uploaded a git patch to gist.github.com so you could easier see the changes: https://gist.github.com/victorb/d51151a71bbc2cea8db27e115ab5cf16 https://gist.github.com/victorb/d51151a71bbc2cea8db27e115ab5... I'm sure there is some service that offers this on the fly, but quick search didn't reveal anything of interest that you could use for free. Thanks jcims for the link to the previous terms :)

diggan 5y ago
One interesting addition: > +50.9. Amazon has implemented a moratorium on use of Amazon Rekognition’s face comparison feature by police departments in connection with criminal investigations. This moratorium does not apply to use of Amazon Rekognition’s face comparison feature to help identify or locate missing persons. For more information, see our announcement on our Amazon Day One Blog.

fartcannon 5y ago

You know you can host your own servers, right? Its actually a lot easier than using AWS, too.

fulafel 5y ago
In a lot of orgs, you are allowed to use AWS but only "IT" can host their own servers, and they are hard to deal with. This I also a major rarely spoken factor for the success of AWS.
barbazoo 5y ago
Is it actually a lot easier? By what metric? I'm assuming when you say "host your own servers" you mean actual hardware, right? So getting the hardware, setting it up, hooking it up, reliably, to power and the internet, physically securing it, maintaining hardware, that's "a lot easier" than using a couple EC2 instances across availability zones?
- fartcannon 5y ago
  Yes. You can either learn and use a locked in, vender specific service, or you can learn and use the same tools they use.
jeffwask 5y ago
LOL

darksaints 5y ago

To anybody out there that thinks AWS is a good company to rely on: just look at that version number. And if you want an analogy for what being their customer will be like 5 years from now, you can compare the customer service experience of Amazon.com 5 years ago with their customer service today. 5 years ago: sorry your package arrived late, here's a free month of Amazon prime to make up for it. Today: I don't really care if your package arrived late. Check again in a couple days, most of the time packages just magically show up a few days later than when we said they'd arrive.

barbazoo 5y ago
Personal anecdote, had ordered fairly expensive headphones the other day, I wasn't home yet their tracking said "handed to resident". Customer support said that happens sometimes and the package will probably still arrive within the next 2 days. Yeah sure. Didn't happen, they sent me another pair. It's awful how much waste and theft there is in this system and I feel terrible to occasionally be a part of that.
- jeffwask 5y ago
  There was a really interesting article on returns the other day and the massive waste in the online shopping space. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/free-returns-online-shopping/620169/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/free-re...
vegasje 5y ago
The number in the title is referencing a clause in the terms, not stating the version number of the terms.