5 ms·

Unions work. Good work by them.

by drannex 5y ago

hn_go_brrrrr 5y ago
Or don't, as the case may be :-)
- robert_foss 5y ago
  Union workers being lazy is pretty terrible stereotype. But a popular one in America.
  - hn_go_brrrrr 5y ago
    I'm not saying they're being lazy. Striking workers are by definition not working.
m0zg 5y ago
Do they, though? McDonalds pays more in some locales nowadays, for work that's nowhere near as difficult or physically demanding. I'm sure it wouldn't totally break John Deere if they paid more for labor given that each tractor is like $300-400K, excluding support contracts. Seems to me like this "union" is basically controlled opposition, kept in place to pacify the workers with whatever crumbs the management sweeps off the table. I'm sure they put on a good show for those union dues though.
- kazen44 5y ago
  what would the alternative be? seizing the factory and change of management? unions are there because the alternatives are usually far more violent and messy, looking at the history of the labour movement.
  - m0zg 5y ago
    I'm not sure of the legalities, but couldn't they independently organize and walk out en masse? Nominate (or, heck, even hire) a negotiator etc? It's pretty clear that what they have now isn't any good. $22 over 2000 hours is $44K pre-tax, of which some will be paid as taxes, and a good chunk (as much as 8-10K for a family of three, more with more kids) will disappear into the gaping maw of US "healthcare" system. That, to put it mildly, is insufficient by today's standards, with _real_ inflation clocking in at double digits. With inflation factored in, their union has effectively negotiated them a pay cut. That's supposed to be a "win"? "Seizing" anything is not a good option. It'll just get people shot who don't deserve to be. But there are a million and one ways to put the screws to the corporate, especially if the workforce is already convinced to operate as a united front in negotiations.
    - mbrameld 5y ago
      > but couldn't they independently organize and walk out en masse? Nominate (or, heck, even hire) a negotiator etc? Congratulations, you've invented the union.
      - m0zg 5y ago
        The _real_ one though, not the fake bullshit union they're dealing with now.
- blackoil 5y ago
  Is McDonalds paying more in *same* locale? If so the offer will fail as people have other fallback jobs. Also you are assuming people will prefer McD jobs as they may require lower skill but may provide lower growth worse working conditions.
jollybean 5y ago
Some unions work, others do not, may work and fail at the same time.
dang 5y ago
Ok, but please don't post unsubstantive comments to HN, or take HN threads on generic tangents, which tend to be predictable and boring (and usually turn nasty, in the end). https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html (p.s. This moderation comment is purely about HN and doesn't imply anything about the topic.)

Unions work. Good work by them.

hn_go_brrrrr 5y ago

Or don't, as the case may be :-)

robert_foss 5y ago
Union workers being lazy is pretty terrible stereotype. But a popular one in America.
- hn_go_brrrrr 5y ago
  I'm not saying they're being lazy. Striking workers are by definition not working.

m0zg 5y ago

Do they, though? McDonalds pays more in some locales nowadays, for work that's nowhere near as difficult or physically demanding. I'm sure it wouldn't totally break John Deere if they paid more for labor given that each tractor is like $300-400K, excluding support contracts. Seems to me like this "union" is basically controlled opposition, kept in place to pacify the workers with whatever crumbs the management sweeps off the table. I'm sure they put on a good show for those union dues though.

kazen44 5y ago
what would the alternative be? seizing the factory and change of management? unions are there because the alternatives are usually far more violent and messy, looking at the history of the labour movement.
- m0zg 5y ago
  I'm not sure of the legalities, but couldn't they independently organize and walk out en masse? Nominate (or, heck, even hire) a negotiator etc? It's pretty clear that what they have now isn't any good. $22 over 2000 hours is $44K pre-tax, of which some will be paid as taxes, and a good chunk (as much as 8-10K for a family of three, more with more kids) will disappear into the gaping maw of US "healthcare" system. That, to put it mildly, is insufficient by today's standards, with _real_ inflation clocking in at double digits. With inflation factored in, their union has effectively negotiated them a pay cut. That's supposed to be a "win"? "Seizing" anything is not a good option. It'll just get people shot who don't deserve to be. But there are a million and one ways to put the screws to the corporate, especially if the workforce is already convinced to operate as a united front in negotiations.
  - mbrameld 5y ago
    > but couldn't they independently organize and walk out en masse? Nominate (or, heck, even hire) a negotiator etc? Congratulations, you've invented the union.
    - m0zg 5y ago
      The _real_ one though, not the fake bullshit union they're dealing with now.
blackoil 5y ago
Is McDonalds paying more in *same* locale? If so the offer will fail as people have other fallback jobs. Also you are assuming people will prefer McD jobs as they may require lower skill but may provide lower growth worse working conditions.

jollybean 5y ago

Some unions work, others do not, may work and fail at the same time.

dang 5y ago

Ok, but please don't post unsubstantive comments to HN, or take HN threads on generic tangents, which tend to be predictable and boring (and usually turn nasty, in the end). https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html (p.s. This moderation comment is purely about HN and doesn't imply anything about the topic.)