5 ms·

Dune explicitly was adapted to satisfy PC morality. Villneuve said so (using other words of course). They made Jessica into a physical fighter, converted Liet

Dune explicitly was adapted to satisfy PC morality. Villneuve said so (using other words of course). They made Jessica into a physical fighter, converted Liet Kynes into a black lady, excised the distinctive word 'jihad' to refer to Paul's vision of war. They removed the Baron's homosexuality and sexual perversion and changed his servant boys into (bald) servant girls, etc. The damage wasn't too bad all things considered, but in Dune 2021's case the source book was not the Bible and it was definitely messed with.

wslack 5y ago
> They removed the Baron's homosexuality and sexual perversion Probably because at the time Dune was written, people conflated those things in a way that caused a lot of harm to people not interested in harming children. Seems highly reasonable not to feed a trope like that.
- pbak 5y ago
  Are you saying grown men keeping young boys for sexual gratification is not perversion anymore ? It seems to me that that catholic priests abusing choir boys or the "bacha bazi" practice in Afghanistan are still shocking everybody.
  - watwut 5y ago
    He is saying that homosexuality and pedophilia are two different things. Homosexuality is specifically not being considered perversion anymore. And the adults abusing pre-pubescent boys are not necessary homosexuals.
    - pbak 5y ago
      I understood that distinction perfectly. And as OC wrote "at the time Dune was written", it is absolutely true the distinction was generaly not made. However this movie has been made in 2021. People who fail to make the distinction today are few and far between, except maybe in the extreme Christian Right or Fundamentalist Islam. Somehow, I don't think those are the target groups for the movie or book. IMHO the filmmakers wanted to "protect" (if you allow me such an expression) the "cause" of homosexuality by using preventative narrative censorship. However, a trope cannot be fed if next to nobody understands it in that way, under that specific context. Most of the audience would completely gloss over his homosexuality. Even homophobes are "used to it" now. This is precisely why I think they did a disservice to the work to pander to modern virtues and little gain. The audience/readers are supposed to find the Baron to be the most execrable human-adjacent being they have ever heard about. The author wanted to drive us to despise him. In only watching the show, you are robbed of the necessary substrate for that emotion to arise. His evil was abstracted.
maire 5y ago
> They made Jessica into a physical fighter Reread chapter 31. Jessica bested Stilgar in a physical fight the same as the movie. Jessica was demoted in the movie. She was far stronger in the book. I didn't understand why until I read this review. https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/10/dune https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/10/dune
- xref 5y ago
  Abigail’s film reviews are almost always on point and add a ton of details and context
chrisfosterelli 5y ago
I can understand some of it. I read Dune earlier this year and some components notably stuck out of their time, like the book's reference to the Jihad. While I can understand it in the context of a book from 1965, a modern cinematic release doesn't get the same leeway from audiences I'd imagine.
canjobear 5y ago
The Liet Kynes gender swap was obviously for PC reasons but the other things you point out have plausible other justifications. For the lack of "jihad", consider that the connotations of the word are very different for 2021 audiences that lived through the War on Terror, as compared to 1965 readers who might only have been vaguely familiar with the word. Also, Jessica (and the other Bene Gesserit) are clearly strong physical fighters in the books.
andreime 5y ago
One can make the case you can get away with more deviancy in tv shows than in movies. The changes you listed to Dune did not felt to me like they fundamentaly altered the story. Jessica should be a terrific fighter since she is a Bene Gesserit https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Bene_Gesserit#Powers_and_Abilities https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Bene_Gesserit#Powers_and_Abilit.... I don't agree with this take that it was modified to satisfy PC morality. There were a lot of criticism that Dune is white mesiah for arabs in space. Imagine a change where black Paula together with her partner Chani and Fremen overthrow the male dominated Landsraad. The movie is basically in line with the books in terms of story: it's not about a hero saving the world; Paul is not an-Aragorn like figure, he is manipulating and taking advantage of prophecies put in place in the collective mind by the Bene Gesserit, in order to further his own goals.
light_hue_1 5y ago
Literally nowhere does the book say what Kynes' skin color is. You might have imagined the character as white, but that's on you. It's not a "change" made for "PC" reasons. And if it was, well, that would be awesome!
- _ph_ 5y ago
  It is kind of hilarious to argue about the skin color of people millennia from now as if they would be static. Considering the amount of globalization, I would expect humanity to look quite different in a couple of hundred years already. If there are major visible differences between people 10k years in the future, they probably are along planet boundaries, and in which way they express is difficult to estimate. UV radiation might still play a huge role in skin coloring, but there could be many other differentiators being common.
  - nottorp 5y ago
    In 10000 years we should all be some (light?) shade of brown. If we get rid of the racism at least.
    - _ph_ 5y ago
      One the one side yes, the current differences are getting mixed up, but with a multi planetary species, complete different traits could appear and show differentiation. May be larger differences in tallness, depending on gravity for example.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
rsynnott 5y ago
> excised the distinctive word 'jihad' to refer to Paul's vision of war. That's probably for the best, because that term would have quite different baggage for the average viewer in the 2020s than it would have for the average reader in the 1960s.

wslack 5y ago

> They removed the Baron's homosexuality and sexual perversion Probably because at the time Dune was written, people conflated those things in a way that caused a lot of harm to people not interested in harming children. Seems highly reasonable not to feed a trope like that.

pbak 5y ago
Are you saying grown men keeping young boys for sexual gratification is not perversion anymore ? It seems to me that that catholic priests abusing choir boys or the "bacha bazi" practice in Afghanistan are still shocking everybody.
- watwut 5y ago
  He is saying that homosexuality and pedophilia are two different things. Homosexuality is specifically not being considered perversion anymore. And the adults abusing pre-pubescent boys are not necessary homosexuals.
  - pbak 5y ago
    I understood that distinction perfectly. And as OC wrote "at the time Dune was written", it is absolutely true the distinction was generaly not made. However this movie has been made in 2021. People who fail to make the distinction today are few and far between, except maybe in the extreme Christian Right or Fundamentalist Islam. Somehow, I don't think those are the target groups for the movie or book. IMHO the filmmakers wanted to "protect" (if you allow me such an expression) the "cause" of homosexuality by using preventative narrative censorship. However, a trope cannot be fed if next to nobody understands it in that way, under that specific context. Most of the audience would completely gloss over his homosexuality. Even homophobes are "used to it" now. This is precisely why I think they did a disservice to the work to pander to modern virtues and little gain. The audience/readers are supposed to find the Baron to be the most execrable human-adjacent being they have ever heard about. The author wanted to drive us to despise him. In only watching the show, you are robbed of the necessary substrate for that emotion to arise. His evil was abstracted.

maire 5y ago

> They made Jessica into a physical fighter Reread chapter 31. Jessica bested Stilgar in a physical fight the same as the movie. Jessica was demoted in the movie. She was far stronger in the book. I didn't understand why until I read this review. https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/10/dune https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/10/dune

xref 5y ago
Abigail’s film reviews are almost always on point and add a ton of details and context

chrisfosterelli 5y ago

I can understand some of it. I read Dune earlier this year and some components notably stuck out of their time, like the book's reference to the Jihad. While I can understand it in the context of a book from 1965, a modern cinematic release doesn't get the same leeway from audiences I'd imagine.

canjobear 5y ago

The Liet Kynes gender swap was obviously for PC reasons but the other things you point out have plausible other justifications. For the lack of "jihad", consider that the connotations of the word are very different for 2021 audiences that lived through the War on Terror, as compared to 1965 readers who might only have been vaguely familiar with the word. Also, Jessica (and the other Bene Gesserit) are clearly strong physical fighters in the books.

andreime 5y ago

One can make the case you can get away with more deviancy in tv shows than in movies. The changes you listed to Dune did not felt to me like they fundamentaly altered the story. Jessica should be a terrific fighter since she is a Bene Gesserit https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Bene_Gesserit#Powers_and_Abilities https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Bene_Gesserit#Powers_and_Abilit.... I don't agree with this take that it was modified to satisfy PC morality. There were a lot of criticism that Dune is white mesiah for arabs in space. Imagine a change where black Paula together with her partner Chani and Fremen overthrow the male dominated Landsraad. The movie is basically in line with the books in terms of story: it's not about a hero saving the world; Paul is not an-Aragorn like figure, he is manipulating and taking advantage of prophecies put in place in the collective mind by the Bene Gesserit, in order to further his own goals.

light_hue_1 5y ago

Literally nowhere does the book say what Kynes' skin color is. You might have imagined the character as white, but that's on you. It's not a "change" made for "PC" reasons. And if it was, well, that would be awesome!

_ph_ 5y ago
It is kind of hilarious to argue about the skin color of people millennia from now as if they would be static. Considering the amount of globalization, I would expect humanity to look quite different in a couple of hundred years already. If there are major visible differences between people 10k years in the future, they probably are along planet boundaries, and in which way they express is difficult to estimate. UV radiation might still play a huge role in skin coloring, but there could be many other differentiators being common.
- nottorp 5y ago
  In 10000 years we should all be some (light?) shade of brown. If we get rid of the racism at least.
  - _ph_ 5y ago
    One the one side yes, the current differences are getting mixed up, but with a multi planetary species, complete different traits could appear and show differentiation. May be larger differences in tallness, depending on gravity for example.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

rsynnott 5y ago

> excised the distinctive word 'jihad' to refer to Paul's vision of war. That's probably for the best, because that term would have quite different baggage for the average viewer in the 2020s than it would have for the average reader in the 1960s.