11 ms·

Dune wasn't exactly untouched by Hollywood politics. They completely eliminated the themes of European/Arabic cultural conflict (replacing everyone except the b

by wyager 5y ago

Dune wasn't exactly untouched by Hollywood politics. They completely eliminated the themes of European/Arabic cultural conflict (replacing everyone except the bad guys with a generic box-ticking multi-ethnic cast) and they completely nuked Kynes' character to replace him with a forgettable "generic strong woman" character.

simonh 5y ago
Oh come on. Atreides, Haleck, Hawat, Yueh, Idaho, Mattai. No hints of ethnic diversity there in the book at all? Really? I thought Sharon did a fantastic job as Kynes, one of the more naturalistic performances in the whole movie.
- k__ 5y ago
  The descriptions of Atreides in the book didn't strike me as particularly western. Dark hair, olive skin, etc.
  - _ph_ 5y ago
    But they trace their line to the ancient greek Adreides which fought in the siege of Troy. So their origin would be Greek, whatever mixed in over the millenia.
    - simonh 5y ago
      Genetically it doesn't make sense to privilege one ancestor or ancestral line as 'their origin', over others that are merely 'mixed in'. They're all just ancestors. Take Paul for example, is his ancestry Atreides, or whatever Jessica's background is*? He's just as much her son as he is Leto's. * spoiler alert
      - _ph_ 5y ago
        That is of course correct. Isn't it even so that every 4th man in Asia can name Genghis Khan as his ancestor? I think in general, making large assumptions how humanity looks even very few generations in the future is pure speculation with the current speed of globalization and mobility.
- rory 5y ago
  I always envisioned each planet / great house / ethnic group to be ethnically homogeneous, although different from each other. I don't think it's very likely there would be some black Fremen and some mediterranean looking ones in the same sietch. Even if the planet was colonized with a diverse population, it would have been blended out by the time the events Dune take place. But also it's soft sci fi so tons of things already aren't realistic. Ethnicities are a weird one to get hung up on.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
While Dune (The Movie) is not exactly a treatise on colonialism with a specific focus on European/Arabic cultural conflict, it has several sections in which characters from both Fremen and Atreides camps describe and discuss colonialism directly and indirectly. If the portrayal of Kynes was "a forgetabble "generic strong woman"", didn't that apply to (at the very least) both Gurney and Duncan also? It seems that you wanted to see a different film than the one Villeneuve wanted to make.
- wyager 5y ago
  > didn't that apply to (at the very least) both Gurney and Duncan also? Yes, although to a lesser degree for Duncan. > It seems that you wanted to see a different film than the one Villeneuve wanted to make. I’m not talking about how the film did or didn’t match what I wanted, I’m simply refuting that “the source book should be the Bible and you don’t mess with it” applies to Villeneuve’s Dune.
Maursault 5y ago
> they completely nuked Kynes' character to replace him with a forgettable "generic strong woman" character Kynes was perhaps a critical but yet very minor character in the novel and arguably was a forgettable character. The reason it may seem otherwise is that Kynes was first portrayed by that notorious show-stealer Max von Sydow. Casting a Black female actor instead in the role of Kynes is merely license as opposed to and starkly contrasted with the sacrilege of Liv Tyler stealing all of Glorfindel's thunder.

by wyager 5y ago

simonh 5y ago

Oh come on. Atreides, Haleck, Hawat, Yueh, Idaho, Mattai. No hints of ethnic diversity there in the book at all? Really? I thought Sharon did a fantastic job as Kynes, one of the more naturalistic performances in the whole movie.

k__ 5y ago
The descriptions of Atreides in the book didn't strike me as particularly western. Dark hair, olive skin, etc.
- _ph_ 5y ago
  But they trace their line to the ancient greek Adreides which fought in the siege of Troy. So their origin would be Greek, whatever mixed in over the millenia.
  - simonh 5y ago
    Genetically it doesn't make sense to privilege one ancestor or ancestral line as 'their origin', over others that are merely 'mixed in'. They're all just ancestors. Take Paul for example, is his ancestry Atreides, or whatever Jessica's background is*? He's just as much her son as he is Leto's. * spoiler alert
    - _ph_ 5y ago
      That is of course correct. Isn't it even so that every 4th man in Asia can name Genghis Khan as his ancestor? I think in general, making large assumptions how humanity looks even very few generations in the future is pure speculation with the current speed of globalization and mobility.
rory 5y ago
I always envisioned each planet / great house / ethnic group to be ethnically homogeneous, although different from each other. I don't think it's very likely there would be some black Fremen and some mediterranean looking ones in the same sietch. Even if the planet was colonized with a diverse population, it would have been blended out by the time the events Dune take place. But also it's soft sci fi so tons of things already aren't realistic. Ethnicities are a weird one to get hung up on.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago

While Dune (The Movie) is not exactly a treatise on colonialism with a specific focus on European/Arabic cultural conflict, it has several sections in which characters from both Fremen and Atreides camps describe and discuss colonialism directly and indirectly. If the portrayal of Kynes was "a forgetabble "generic strong woman"", didn't that apply to (at the very least) both Gurney and Duncan also? It seems that you wanted to see a different film than the one Villeneuve wanted to make.

wyager 5y ago
> didn't that apply to (at the very least) both Gurney and Duncan also? Yes, although to a lesser degree for Duncan. > It seems that you wanted to see a different film than the one Villeneuve wanted to make. I’m not talking about how the film did or didn’t match what I wanted, I’m simply refuting that “the source book should be the Bible and you don’t mess with it” applies to Villeneuve’s Dune.

Maursault 5y ago

> they completely nuked Kynes' character to replace him with a forgettable "generic strong woman" character Kynes was perhaps a critical but yet very minor character in the novel and arguably was a forgettable character. The reason it may seem otherwise is that Kynes was first portrayed by that notorious show-stealer Max von Sydow. Casting a Black female actor instead in the role of Kynes is merely license as opposed to and starkly contrasted with the sacrilege of Liv Tyler stealing all of Glorfindel's thunder.