3 ms·

"presented as Chosen Ones" -- from the Goyer AMA, he said the show explores when believe think they are Chosen Ones, but that there are no Chosen Ones. In fact

by weikju 5y ago

"presented as Chosen Ones" -- from the Goyer AMA, he said the show explores when believe think they are Chosen Ones, but that there are no Chosen Ones. In fact, the whole thing about Salvor believing she's a Chosen One is falling apart, as every one of her schemes (involving violence as well) are falling apart.. and it seems like she's where Gaal was supposed to be, therefore she's being mistaken as the leader that Gaal was supposed to be, and things are going off the rails as a result... What's sad is it took an AMA to fully understand this, rather than being understood via watching the show, at least in the first 7 episodes...

Jtsummers 5y ago
I'll grant you, Salvor is definitely turning into a false Chosen One (also, this would be the first Seldon Crisis which they weren't even supposed to know of until after the first one, and she's already name dropped the term). She's got an idiot ball grafted onto her somewhere that she just can't shed. However, Seldon, to Raych, tells him that his decision with respect to Gaal will determine the fate of the galaxy. That's way too much weight for Seldon to place on one person in the context of the series, especially at this point unless he already knows about people like The Mule (which would be unfortunate, that'd be something best explored as it throws a wrench in your plans, not from the beginning of the series).
- ddoolin 5y ago
  I agree, it was a stark reversal from "The Plan does not account for the actions of any one individual" but was just revealed that it somehow hinged on the actions of...one individual. I think they fell into a trap with that and hope that they don't dig that hole any deeper. I'm a very casual viewer and even I picked up on that.
  - weikju 5y ago
    Perhaps the goal was to "fix the holes in the plan" rather than "an individual will save the day with heroic actions". 3 more episodes till we find out if they went that route or really butchered the novels' premise..
mewse 5y ago
But the whole point of Psychohistory (as it’s presented in the books) is that there aren’t any “Chosen Ones” at all. Sure Salvor isn’t one, but Gaal isn’t either; no one is. That’s the entire point. Under Psychohistory, it shouldn’t matter who the leader is; what matters is the forces on the population as a whole and that populations respond to those forces in predictable ways. Individual leaders come and go and really don’t matter very much on the big-scale stuff that Psycho-History is making predictions about. It’s the whole basis of the first several books that this “large forces acting across whole populations” model is the ‘true’ way that civilisation-scale history works and why the future history is so predictable (before stuff starts going a bit off the rails later on in ways that I’m not going to spoil). To me, if you’re not using that concept as the bedrock of the story you’re telling, then you’re not telling a Foundation story. (It might be a quite good science fiction story of course, just not Foundation)
- weikju 5y ago
  Just like in the books, one person close to Hari went to the Foundation to nudge it in the right direction at the start, I'm assuming that this is the role Gaal was to play, but didn't get a chance to do.. Either way, in the absolute this is correct that this isn't following the book's model, but, they aren't completely invalidating it. I hope

by weikju 5y ago

Jtsummers 5y ago

I'll grant you, Salvor is definitely turning into a false Chosen One (also, this would be the first Seldon Crisis which they weren't even supposed to know of until after the first one, and she's already name dropped the term). She's got an idiot ball grafted onto her somewhere that she just can't shed. However, Seldon, to Raych, tells him that his decision with respect to Gaal will determine the fate of the galaxy. That's way too much weight for Seldon to place on one person in the context of the series, especially at this point unless he already knows about people like The Mule (which would be unfortunate, that'd be something best explored as it throws a wrench in your plans, not from the beginning of the series).

ddoolin 5y ago
I agree, it was a stark reversal from "The Plan does not account for the actions of any one individual" but was just revealed that it somehow hinged on the actions of...one individual. I think they fell into a trap with that and hope that they don't dig that hole any deeper. I'm a very casual viewer and even I picked up on that.
- weikju 5y ago
  Perhaps the goal was to "fix the holes in the plan" rather than "an individual will save the day with heroic actions". 3 more episodes till we find out if they went that route or really butchered the novels' premise..

mewse 5y ago

But the whole point of Psychohistory (as it’s presented in the books) is that there aren’t any “Chosen Ones” at all. Sure Salvor isn’t one, but Gaal isn’t either; no one is. That’s the entire point. Under Psychohistory, it shouldn’t matter who the leader is; what matters is the forces on the population as a whole and that populations respond to those forces in predictable ways. Individual leaders come and go and really don’t matter very much on the big-scale stuff that Psycho-History is making predictions about. It’s the whole basis of the first several books that this “large forces acting across whole populations” model is the ‘true’ way that civilisation-scale history works and why the future history is so predictable (before stuff starts going a bit off the rails later on in ways that I’m not going to spoil). To me, if you’re not using that concept as the bedrock of the story you’re telling, then you’re not telling a Foundation story. (It might be a quite good science fiction story of course, just not Foundation)

weikju 5y ago
Just like in the books, one person close to Hari went to the Foundation to nudge it in the right direction at the start, I'm assuming that this is the role Gaal was to play, but didn't get a chance to do.. Either way, in the absolute this is correct that this isn't following the book's model, but, they aren't completely invalidating it. I hope