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> You definitely aren’t too old By "old" I didn't mean actual biological age exactly. I guess the more appropriate word would be something more like "settled
by tombert 5y ago
> You definitely aren’t too old
By "old" I didn't mean actual biological age exactly. I guess the more appropriate word would be something more like "settled". As it stands, I have a mortgage and whatnot to take care of, it's not really realistic for me to quit my job and focus full-time on a PhD for the next 5-6 years.
> but I would never take on a PhD student that wants to continue working elsewhere
That seems to be the consensus in the US for the most part. Ironically, it's actually easier for a working American to get a distance-learning PhD from a British university than it is to get a local PhD in person in the states.
Right now I'm in the process of trying to get into University of York's distance part-time PhD, while remaining in NY. It's a long shot but it's basically my only option.
- anon946 5y agoThe biggest issue is the remote part, not the part-time part. I'm a professor, and myself and others in the dept. have remote, part-time PhD students. However, they have finished their coursework, which must be done in person for the most part. The coursework could be done part-time, though.
- bumby 5y ago>which must be done in person for the most part. I think COVID may have changed some of this paradigm for many schools
- melvinmt 5y agoYes, part-time PhD's are pretty common in Europe. They also commonly take 3-4 years instead of 6...
- tombert 5y agoWhich I find weird; are European/British PhDs generally considered less valuable than American? I didn’t think they were but there’s a lot I don’t know about this.
- analog31 5y agoThey may start out already more specialized as undergrads, or the programs are just managed better.
- tooltower 5y agoThey make a sharper distinction of PhD being a post-Masters degree. In USA, I started the PhD program without a Masters, others started with me who had a Masters. We all took roughly the same amount of time to complete the PhD
- throaway1990 5y agoEuropean PhDs have better structure and rigid filters to weed out the unworthy dweebs. And the students take far less courses and generally work harder. US PhD system is slow and often leads to counter-intuitive, interesting or just weird results, which may or mayn't pan out in the long run. US PhD system has to be longer because i) US undergraduate system is absolute trash (like worse than 3rd world 12th grader at their worst), specially in STEM, so the extra 2-3 years are essential. ii) US students don't work that hard iii) Quite a few STEM grad students are foreign students, sometimes from different undergard backgrounds than PhD topic, so they benefit from 1-2 years of background training and acclimitising to foreign land.
- 5y ago
- evanb 5y ago… if you already have a master’s degree, which takes 2 years. In the US many 5-6 year PhD programs do not require—and in fact include—a master’s degree.
- bombadilo 5y agoA masters is typically one year full time, two years part time.
- trenchgun 5y agoIncorrect. In Europe a bachelors is either 3 or 4 years, and a masters is either 1 or 2 years. Full time. Source: https://ec.europa.eu/education/resources-and-tools/european-credit-transfer-and-accumulation-system-ects_en https://ec.europa.eu/education/resources-and-tools/european-...
- Zababa 5y agoOh, that explains a lot. In France it's usually 3 years (180 ECTS) for a license (which is usually equivalent to a bachelor), 2 years (120 ECTS) for a master's degree and then usually 3 years for a PhD. At least in software, most people have a master's degree.
- jstx1 5y agoThis isn't the case in England. Most master's degrees are 1 year and a master's isn't a requirement for many PhD programmes. So it's possible to do your entire higher education, including a PhD, in 6 years (3 years of undergrad + 3 years full-time PhD).
- unobatbayar 5y ago> I'm 30 right now, > You definitely aren’t too old > By "old" I didn't mean actual biological age exactly. In my opinion, the replier was referring to your chronological age.
- tombert 5y agoSure but this is a distinction without a difference in this case. My choice of the word “old” wasn’t very good, as explained in the following sentence.
- unobatbayar 5y agoI see, sorry I didn't mean to be rude.
- ildon 5y agoEU Professor here. You're right, expectations are very different in the "old continent". Things very quite significantly from country to country, but generally speaking in most EU you can do your PhD while working. Retrospectively, knowing what I know know, I should add that if I were to start a PhD now I wouldn't trust a university that asks for a full time commitment, no exceptions. I would be very suspicious that they will burden me with all kind of side activities (e.g. tutoring undergraduate students, handling bureaucracy, paper work, etc.) that are not really of any actual help towards the thesis. As a professor my view is that PhD students should have quite a lot of "free time" to explore, try different things and fail as many times as possible, with the highest degree of freedom allowed by the domain in which they work. I think that that's at the core of what academic research is all about. If you don't need lab equipment or anything that requires in person training, I'd say to go absolutely for a remote position as a PhD student. It doesn't really make a huge difference if you can do everything you need in front of a computer. If you can do your PhD fully remotely, the two most important things are how respected and wel known is the university in which you enrol, and the tutor that will be assigned to you (don't underestimate this!). Best of luck! PS you're definitely not too old, and not too settled, as long as you have "hunger" for understanding how things around you work!
- blip54321 5y agoNew continent: - Full time commitment seems critical to the process. A Ph.D is a time of intellectual exploration, and you can't really do that fighting work and family deadlines. - On the other hand, time can be squished for older people by virtue of industry experience making them more efficient - I'd be hesitant about remote, since so much of a Ph.D is learning from others. Hallway conversations are critical. That's possible remotely, but not common. - Fully agreed about "side activities." Teaching is fine -- you learn A LOT from it -- but a lot of Ph.D programs give stupid administrative grunt work. The metaphorical cleaning of test tubes on a professor's project is a serious red flag. No such thing as too old, but having a mortgage and family myself now, I definitely get much out of a Ph.D program right now. I'll mention too: If I didn't have a Ph.D, I'm mature and disciplined enough now that I could learn the same without a formal program. I am skeptical of new world "accelerated" programs, which often have little substance, and are designed to milk working professionals. It's like getting the piece of paper in Wizard of Oz.
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- geebee 5y agoOne factor - I was under the impression that European PhD programs are much more dissertation focused, whereas US based ones are intensely coursework focused for the first few years. Is this the case? I was in a US based PhD program (at Berkeley, mastered out), and I would attest to the heavy coursework load, but I've only heard that European/British programs are largely or purely dissertation based. Would enjoy hearing more about this from someone knowledgeable.
- tombert 5y agoNot in the program yet (and very likely won't be), but with the people I've been chatting with at University of York, this definitely seems to be the case. The professors I've been talking to indicated that I would be hopping directly into research towards an end goal instead of spending a bunch of time in coursework. They also seemed to assume a lot more knowledge about CS and math than most US grad schools do. Presumably you're just expected to enter with most of the knowledge required to research your dissertation. For my application, I had to write a 5-6 page proposal on what I wanted to research, and had to more-or-less defend the proposal during the admissions interview. I'm not as familiar with the American PhD process, but my dad said for him (about 38 years ago, PhD in Aerospace at Notre Dame) it was more or less akin to the undergrad admission process: he took the GRE, sent a few transcripts, interviewed a few people, was accepted, and after about a year he decided what he wanted to focus on.
- geebee 5y agoYes, that is very different from what I experienced at Berkeley as well. There were some notable differences between my PhD application and undergrad, in that PhD admissions committees weren't really interested in the undergraduate dog and pony show of "tell me how your volunteer work and experience playing the flute in your high school orchestra shaped you as a person..." My personal statement was about what I intended to get out of a PhD program and a vague direction of possible future research interest. Interestingly, med and law school applications in the US are much more similar to the undergrad essay than PhD programs. But still, even the PhD statement was nothing like the 5-6 page proposal with a clear research focus that you described. Sounds more like the kind of program I'd be interested in if I were to go back, as I'd be mainly interested in researching something deeply, not taking classes. Well, good luck, hope it works out for you.
- nbardy 5y agoI've been looking into Graduate school for years and decided I won't go back in the US mostly likely and will head to Europe. Our system is designed to take advantage of PhD's as labor for the university system. It's too extractive for what it's giving back.