5 ms·

The show feels like the creators read the back of the book and nothing else. Adaptation is never a one-to-one translation but you need to keep the spirit of the

The show feels like the creators read the back of the book and nothing else. Adaptation is never a one-to-one translation but you need to keep the spirit of the show. Also the whole emperor lineage stuff feels like an attempt to add a Game of Thrones type plot to the show. I'm not far into the show, so perhaps they address this, but I'd love a more modern commentary on how the whole ideology of the Foundation is basically colonialism and manifest destiny. Having a civilization that is predestined to be the chosen holy empire is a common justification for invading and oppressing other civilizations. It'd be an interesting twist to argue against the Second Empire, in line with the modern re-evaluation of the so-called Dark Ages as not being so dark necessarily. I also don't get why the stories are intertwined and so stretched out. Well, I guess I do know why in that Apple probably wanted a prestige TV show that'd last 5-6 seasons. The adaptation would work better with 1 hour to 1.5 hour episodes, each adapting one section of the book.

KennyBlanken 5y ago
> I also don't get why the stories are intertwined and so stretched out. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RotatingArcs https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RotatingArcs It's a pretty standard technique to have multiple arcs going on in an episode. The most ready example that comes to mind is Battlestar Galactica.
- hardwaregeek 5y ago
  Yes, but why? I'm familiar with the concept and it can work well (see Robert Altman films), but why was it necessary for this show? I think the straightforward single story single episode would allow for continuity, narrative depth and emphasize the theme that these books span centuries and multiple lifetimes. One of the better aspects of the book is seeing Salvor Hardin go from young upstart to elder statesman to mythic legend.
  - megablast 5y ago
    You are familiar with the concept that is used in almost every single television show?? In fact, I can’t think of one it isn’t in. Ok. Why did they use it?? Hmm....
  - droopyEyelids 5y ago
    They can serve as a sort of self-narrating story, where a past arc provides context for the present or future. Rotating arcs also add complexity that excuses weakness in character or plot writing- the viewer's effort to keep arcs organized makes it easier to overlook those faults.
    - pharke 5y ago
      > Rotating arcs also add complexity that excuses weakness in character or plot writing... In other words, it's a gimmick.
  - KennyBlanken 5y ago
    If you read the link I included, it discusses numerous reasons that are immediately apparent/applicable if you are familiar with the book/show.
scubadude 5y ago
8 seasons is what I read :-)
- pbak 5y ago
  So, in the end, the Mulet stabs Golan Trevize in the back? F**...
Jansen312 5y ago
Foundations series as a whole was relatively lite. Characters aren't that sophisticated as what you get in GoT, Dune, or Tolkiens. Screen adaptations are mostly to target a different kind of audience. People who loves the original books aren't the intended target. The mass who have heard of Asimov but didn't bother to read or just read the back of the book would be the main audience for this Foundations. It is currently way better than the finale of GoT.
- rockemsockem 5y ago
  Strong disagree. This is one of the worst shows I've ever watched. Lots of magical story elements that just poof out of nowhere at just the right time. On top of that there's ton of useless scenes where literally nothing important to anything is on screen for over a minute. The show-runner helped make Batman vs Superman and I see LOTS of that awful movie in Foundation.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - ssully 5y ago
    "Lots of magical story elements that just poof out of nowhere at just the right time." Have you read Foundation recently? That is literally how almost half (or more) of the conflicts in the first book get resolved!
orangepanda 5y ago
> Also the whole emperor lineage stuff feels like an attempt to add a Game of Thrones type plot to the show. By episode 7 that is the only interesting/good storyline the show has. (Mostly because everything else is on par with CW network)
tarsinge 5y ago
> The show feels like the creators read the back of the book and nothing else. To me it looks like the creators have a pretty deep understanding of the book. I have a good memory of the book and there are a lot of subtle references. What is frustrating is the choices and twist they make. Like presenting everything as pseudo magical and religious. My hope is that they are bold in the narration and mixing elements from much later in the books, setting things up for big reveals in future seasons (e.g hard to tell without spoiling but like Gaal setting things up for things that only are revealed in the third book that could explain the pseudo magic).
- scrumper 5y ago
  > Like presenting everything as pseudo magical and religious I'm not sure they're so wrong with that. In the books, Hari Seldon understands his math and so does Gaal, but nobody else can. Same in the show. His line in the colony ship in the show, something about "following me on what's little more than a prayer", is spot on. I think the show has done a fairly good job of playing with the discomfort I felt reading Foundation: that so much has to be taken on faith by so many people. It doesn't really matter whether your prophet got his revelation through a dream, pulling some rocks from a bag, or a few nights of multidimensional calculus; it's all opaque to the followers who just have to believe. The rest of the additions and changes seem to make sense given the medium. Clone emperors: super great, and helped by the best acting in the show. I'd bet Asimov had something similar in mind (he named them "Cleon" in the books too, surely a clue in that anagram.) Even the time-jump with the cryo pod helps to ameliorate one of the issues I had with the books, which was the brief time we got to hang out with some interesting characters before a few centuries passed. The plot with Dornick's boyfriend on the colony ship was a good addition too, albeit quite well telegraphed. Space 9/11 was totally necessary for a TV adaptation, you can't show a couple of potholes in the highway roads and expect anyone to get "society collapses" from it. I'm with the consensus on Hardin though. Space marine chosen one was not where I thought that character would end up. The actor playing her mom would've been better as Salvor, with her daughter being a destabilizing influence for her to try and keep leashed up (and maybe ultimately use, reluctantly, as her "last resort.")
- rsynnott 5y ago

KennyBlanken 5y ago

> I also don't get why the stories are intertwined and so stretched out. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RotatingArcs https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RotatingArcs It's a pretty standard technique to have multiple arcs going on in an episode. The most ready example that comes to mind is Battlestar Galactica.

hardwaregeek 5y ago
Yes, but why? I'm familiar with the concept and it can work well (see Robert Altman films), but why was it necessary for this show? I think the straightforward single story single episode would allow for continuity, narrative depth and emphasize the theme that these books span centuries and multiple lifetimes. One of the better aspects of the book is seeing Salvor Hardin go from young upstart to elder statesman to mythic legend.
- megablast 5y ago
  You are familiar with the concept that is used in almost every single television show?? In fact, I can’t think of one it isn’t in. Ok. Why did they use it?? Hmm....
- droopyEyelids 5y ago
  They can serve as a sort of self-narrating story, where a past arc provides context for the present or future. Rotating arcs also add complexity that excuses weakness in character or plot writing- the viewer's effort to keep arcs organized makes it easier to overlook those faults.
  - pharke 5y ago
    > Rotating arcs also add complexity that excuses weakness in character or plot writing... In other words, it's a gimmick.
- KennyBlanken 5y ago
  If you read the link I included, it discusses numerous reasons that are immediately apparent/applicable if you are familiar with the book/show.

scubadude 5y ago

8 seasons is what I read :-)

pbak 5y ago
So, in the end, the Mulet stabs Golan Trevize in the back? F**...

Jansen312 5y ago

Foundations series as a whole was relatively lite. Characters aren't that sophisticated as what you get in GoT, Dune, or Tolkiens. Screen adaptations are mostly to target a different kind of audience. People who loves the original books aren't the intended target. The mass who have heard of Asimov but didn't bother to read or just read the back of the book would be the main audience for this Foundations. It is currently way better than the finale of GoT.

rockemsockem 5y ago
Strong disagree. This is one of the worst shows I've ever watched. Lots of magical story elements that just poof out of nowhere at just the right time. On top of that there's ton of useless scenes where literally nothing important to anything is on screen for over a minute. The show-runner helped make Batman vs Superman and I see LOTS of that awful movie in Foundation.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ssully 5y ago
  "Lots of magical story elements that just poof out of nowhere at just the right time." Have you read Foundation recently? That is literally how almost half (or more) of the conflicts in the first book get resolved!

orangepanda 5y ago

> Also the whole emperor lineage stuff feels like an attempt to add a Game of Thrones type plot to the show. By episode 7 that is the only interesting/good storyline the show has. (Mostly because everything else is on par with CW network)

tarsinge 5y ago

> The show feels like the creators read the back of the book and nothing else. To me it looks like the creators have a pretty deep understanding of the book. I have a good memory of the book and there are a lot of subtle references. What is frustrating is the choices and twist they make. Like presenting everything as pseudo magical and religious. My hope is that they are bold in the narration and mixing elements from much later in the books, setting things up for big reveals in future seasons (e.g hard to tell without spoiling but like Gaal setting things up for things that only are revealed in the third book that could explain the pseudo magic).

scrumper 5y ago
> Like presenting everything as pseudo magical and religious I'm not sure they're so wrong with that. In the books, Hari Seldon understands his math and so does Gaal, but nobody else can. Same in the show. His line in the colony ship in the show, something about "following me on what's little more than a prayer", is spot on. I think the show has done a fairly good job of playing with the discomfort I felt reading Foundation: that so much has to be taken on faith by so many people. It doesn't really matter whether your prophet got his revelation through a dream, pulling some rocks from a bag, or a few nights of multidimensional calculus; it's all opaque to the followers who just have to believe. The rest of the additions and changes seem to make sense given the medium. Clone emperors: super great, and helped by the best acting in the show. I'd bet Asimov had something similar in mind (he named them "Cleon" in the books too, surely a clue in that anagram.) Even the time-jump with the cryo pod helps to ameliorate one of the issues I had with the books, which was the brief time we got to hang out with some interesting characters before a few centuries passed. The plot with Dornick's boyfriend on the colony ship was a good addition too, albeit quite well telegraphed. Space 9/11 was totally necessary for a TV adaptation, you can't show a couple of potholes in the highway roads and expect anyone to get "society collapses" from it. I'm with the consensus on Hardin though. Space marine chosen one was not where I thought that character would end up. The actor playing her mom would've been better as Salvor, with her daughter being a destabilizing influence for her to try and keep leashed up (and maybe ultimately use, reluctantly, as her "last resort.")
rsynnott 5y ago