6 ms·

San Francisco Safeway cuts hours, allegedly due to 'off the charts' theft

35 points by bryan0 5y ago

someonehere 5y ago
I’ve stood in line by the Safeway out near the Embarcadero and watched 20 something kids walk in grab food from the to-go case and walk right out. Stand in line during peak times and you’ll see it happen in front of your eyes.
kgin 5y ago
I’m honestly surprised this location kept 24/7 hours for so long.
HarryHirsch 5y ago
Somewhere there was a post on Bruce Schneier's blog about copper theft. It must have been around 2008, when the price of copper spiked. His take was that copper wasn't stolen because copper theft was suddenly profitable, rather copper theft was a reflection of the environment, it took place because there was copper infrastructure in places accessible to drug addicts. Same here. What you are really seeing is a lack of social services, combined with cops on strike and no willing takers for shit low-wage jobs. A 24-h CVS can't exist in such an environment.
- closeparen 5y ago
  How does the level of social services in San Francisco compare to other cities that don't have these problems? I would have guessed it's dramatically higher.
- diogenescynic 5y ago
  I think you correctly diagnosed the problem but not the cause. There are LOTS of social services (far more than most other cities... we even give them monthly cash on debit cards) offering free clothes, hot meals, showers, and even rooms at a shelter (but they don't want to obey those rules...) and this attracts more homeless here since it's an easier city to be homeless than say somewhere in the South. And this was going on well before COVID--although that gave the city an excuse to do even less than it already did. This is happening because theft under $950 is a misdemeanor, which means if it's reported to 911 it's a low priority response. As a result, you see rings of people going in grabbing as much as they can which is usually still under $950 and then moving on to the next place. Because there's very little investigation, literal crime rings are doing this and then re-selling on Amazon and Walmart.com and other e-commerce sites. This goes on because it's a low priority to cops, and even if the cops catch them, prosecutors go easy (thanks to Chesa Boudin), and even if they're convicted the judge and jury usually go easy. So if you're a career criminal, SF makes it especially appealing to target. We've allowed "social justice" to be defined as legalizing theft rings and open drug use.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > This is happening because theft under $950 is a misdemeanor, which means if it's reported to 911 it's a low priority response. There is no necessary connection between those things. The problem is the police choose to deprioritize it, in part as a political protest of the classification, and in part because (or as a political gesture to highlight the fact that) the current SF DA won't prosecute it most of the time even as the misdemeanor it is. There aren't retailers leaving the rest of California because of a wave of theft, because other DAs and police departments aren't equally ineffective with the same penal code. This is mostly a Chesa Boudin issue and secondarily an SFPD issue.
- clavicat 5y ago
  San Francisco probably has one of the most generous social service provisions of any city in the world. The latest one I’ve heard of: a bunch of basic income programs explicitly limited to certain races and also artists for some reason. > This pilot program will be the first guaranteed income project in San Francisco to focus solely on artists. The other guaranteed income programs include funding for San Franciscans training to become EMTs, Black and Pacific Islander expecting mothers as part of the Abundant Birth Project, and members of San Francisco’s Black and African-American community as part of the Mayor’s Dream Keeper Initiative. Somehow a city like Tokyo manages to make do without many of these supposedly necessary programs. Weird, right?
  - snypher 5y ago
    Probably two of those demographics are barely seen in Tokyo?
mikewarot 5y ago
Given the foolish notion of not prosecuting, nor attempting to stop any theft under $950, it's a wonder that any businesses are left in San Francisco. Chicago has decided to follow in this folly. I expect it to rapidly implode as a result.
- nielsbot 5y ago
  This is has been the pattern for a long time. I’ve lived in SF for 20 years and the cops don’t go after small time thieves.
  - clavicat 5y ago
    They seem to have given up on murder as well. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/15/brian-egg-san-francisco-fish-tank-murder https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/15/brian-egg-sa...
- discardable_dan 5y ago
  Less than 15% of all thefts result in an arrest. Prosecution is not making the difference. This has been a problem for literal decades.
  - Auracle 5y ago
    The threat of it alone can be (and apparently is) a deterrent to some people. The risk/reward ratio is tipped all the way to reward.
- celdon25 5y ago
  > Chicago has decided to follow in this folly. I expect it to rapidly implode as a result. Are you saying it hasn't long-since imploded already?
- RedBeetDeadpool 5y ago
  C'mon, prosecuting people stealing basic necessities[1], and small personal use items[2] are not gonna keep rich corporations from going out of business. We have to defend the marginalized, or else late stage capitalism will turn us all into slave wage laborers. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEuoSmW4DRw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEuoSmW4DRw [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhCTrcTzFYQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhCTrcTzFYQ
aborsy 5y ago
I hear these are problems liberals have produced (with lax laws and tolerance for petty crime). Can those living in CA chime in about this?
- carnitas 5y ago
  LA here. Lawless shithole where homeless zombies shoot up on the street and endanger people’s lives. Can’t wait to leave
  - diogenescynic 5y ago
    All of California is this way now. We were in SF, then Peninsula, now Sacramento and it's just the same that you describe all over. We're thinking Utah or Idaho. We don't want to raise kids where we can't let them go outside without worrying about some psychotic drug user coming across them--I wish that wasn't a realistic concern but it is!
stevespang 5y ago
Hah. When Safeway closes all the perps will go over to the remaining supermarkets to steal, then, eventually all supermarkets will close. Then you'll have a dystopian Mad Max future with crooks desperate for food holding up anyone, fast food places will disappear, restaurants will close, the crooks will have to fan out into the countryside to find food, and the farmers/ranchers will be staking out their fields heavily armed. Discussions are already in place among retailers to start walling off - - and only providing sliding steel door / cage type openings. Customer slides money into opening - - store employee slides box or bag of products out - - much like drive through banking. Then, crooks will merely stick up customers who will be armed and waiting for trouble, urban warfare will commence. YouTube Influencers and news hounds will post the shoot-outs on YouTube for all to watch. But really, no joke about it - - honest taxpayers are paying for all this by higher retail prices . . . . it's you and me.
eh9 5y ago
> The company did not make its retail theft incident data publicly available I don’t buy that they’re closing the stores due to theft. What I can believe is they’re unwilling to increase wages in one of the most expensive zip codes to have low paying jobs.

35 points by bryan0 5y ago

I’ve stood in line by the Safeway out near the Embarcadero and watched 20 something kids walk in grab food from the to-go case and walk right out. Stand in line during peak times and you’ll see it happen in front of your eyes.

kgin 5y ago

I’m honestly surprised this location kept 24/7 hours for so long.

HarryHirsch 5y ago

Somewhere there was a post on Bruce Schneier's blog about copper theft. It must have been around 2008, when the price of copper spiked. His take was that copper wasn't stolen because copper theft was suddenly profitable, rather copper theft was a reflection of the environment, it took place because there was copper infrastructure in places accessible to drug addicts. Same here. What you are really seeing is a lack of social services, combined with cops on strike and no willing takers for shit low-wage jobs. A 24-h CVS can't exist in such an environment.

closeparen 5y ago
How does the level of social services in San Francisco compare to other cities that don't have these problems? I would have guessed it's dramatically higher.
diogenescynic 5y ago
I think you correctly diagnosed the problem but not the cause. There are LOTS of social services (far more than most other cities... we even give them monthly cash on debit cards) offering free clothes, hot meals, showers, and even rooms at a shelter (but they don't want to obey those rules...) and this attracts more homeless here since it's an easier city to be homeless than say somewhere in the South. And this was going on well before COVID--although that gave the city an excuse to do even less than it already did. This is happening because theft under $950 is a misdemeanor, which means if it's reported to 911 it's a low priority response. As a result, you see rings of people going in grabbing as much as they can which is usually still under $950 and then moving on to the next place. Because there's very little investigation, literal crime rings are doing this and then re-selling on Amazon and Walmart.com and other e-commerce sites. This goes on because it's a low priority to cops, and even if the cops catch them, prosecutors go easy (thanks to Chesa Boudin), and even if they're convicted the judge and jury usually go easy. So if you're a career criminal, SF makes it especially appealing to target. We've allowed "social justice" to be defined as legalizing theft rings and open drug use.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > This is happening because theft under $950 is a misdemeanor, which means if it's reported to 911 it's a low priority response. There is no necessary connection between those things. The problem is the police choose to deprioritize it, in part as a political protest of the classification, and in part because (or as a political gesture to highlight the fact that) the current SF DA won't prosecute it most of the time even as the misdemeanor it is. There aren't retailers leaving the rest of California because of a wave of theft, because other DAs and police departments aren't equally ineffective with the same penal code. This is mostly a Chesa Boudin issue and secondarily an SFPD issue.
clavicat 5y ago
San Francisco probably has one of the most generous social service provisions of any city in the world. The latest one I’ve heard of: a bunch of basic income programs explicitly limited to certain races and also artists for some reason. > This pilot program will be the first guaranteed income project in San Francisco to focus solely on artists. The other guaranteed income programs include funding for San Franciscans training to become EMTs, Black and Pacific Islander expecting mothers as part of the Abundant Birth Project, and members of San Francisco’s Black and African-American community as part of the Mayor’s Dream Keeper Initiative. Somehow a city like Tokyo manages to make do without many of these supposedly necessary programs. Weird, right?
- snypher 5y ago
  Probably two of those demographics are barely seen in Tokyo?

mikewarot 5y ago

Given the foolish notion of not prosecuting, nor attempting to stop any theft under $950, it's a wonder that any businesses are left in San Francisco. Chicago has decided to follow in this folly. I expect it to rapidly implode as a result.

nielsbot 5y ago
This is has been the pattern for a long time. I’ve lived in SF for 20 years and the cops don’t go after small time thieves.
- clavicat 5y ago
  They seem to have given up on murder as well. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/15/brian-egg-san-francisco-fish-tank-murder https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/15/brian-egg-sa...
discardable_dan 5y ago
Less than 15% of all thefts result in an arrest. Prosecution is not making the difference. This has been a problem for literal decades.
- Auracle 5y ago
  The threat of it alone can be (and apparently is) a deterrent to some people. The risk/reward ratio is tipped all the way to reward.
celdon25 5y ago
> Chicago has decided to follow in this folly. I expect it to rapidly implode as a result. Are you saying it hasn't long-since imploded already?
RedBeetDeadpool 5y ago
C'mon, prosecuting people stealing basic necessities[1], and small personal use items[2] are not gonna keep rich corporations from going out of business. We have to defend the marginalized, or else late stage capitalism will turn us all into slave wage laborers. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEuoSmW4DRw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEuoSmW4DRw [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhCTrcTzFYQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhCTrcTzFYQ

aborsy 5y ago

I hear these are problems liberals have produced (with lax laws and tolerance for petty crime). Can those living in CA chime in about this?

carnitas 5y ago
LA here. Lawless shithole where homeless zombies shoot up on the street and endanger people’s lives. Can’t wait to leave
- diogenescynic 5y ago
  All of California is this way now. We were in SF, then Peninsula, now Sacramento and it's just the same that you describe all over. We're thinking Utah or Idaho. We don't want to raise kids where we can't let them go outside without worrying about some psychotic drug user coming across them--I wish that wasn't a realistic concern but it is!

stevespang 5y ago

Hah. When Safeway closes all the perps will go over to the remaining supermarkets to steal, then, eventually all supermarkets will close. Then you'll have a dystopian Mad Max future with crooks desperate for food holding up anyone, fast food places will disappear, restaurants will close, the crooks will have to fan out into the countryside to find food, and the farmers/ranchers will be staking out their fields heavily armed. Discussions are already in place among retailers to start walling off - - and only providing sliding steel door / cage type openings. Customer slides money into opening - - store employee slides box or bag of products out - - much like drive through banking. Then, crooks will merely stick up customers who will be armed and waiting for trouble, urban warfare will commence. YouTube Influencers and news hounds will post the shoot-outs on YouTube for all to watch. But really, no joke about it - - honest taxpayers are paying for all this by higher retail prices . . . . it's you and me.

eh9 5y ago

> The company did not make its retail theft incident data publicly available I don’t buy that they’re closing the stores due to theft. What I can believe is they’re unwilling to increase wages in one of the most expensive zip codes to have low paying jobs.