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Yes, the USD is backed by the most absurd proof of violence the world has ever seen. No organization of human civilization has ever been able to summon as much

Yes, the USD is backed by the most absurd proof of violence the world has ever seen. No organization of human civilization has ever been able to summon as much death and despair as the United States. However, most of the ability of the United States to execute such power is centralized in Washington D.C. and New England. Centralization brings immense efficiency, but also vulnerability. Those geographic regions are a potential target that takes a lot of energy to defend. Why do you think the 9/11 terrorists chose New York and D.C.? Meanwhile, China just fully outlawed cryptocurrency and mining, and it was a minor hiccup in the network. Bitcoin's hash rate as already recovered. The price has doubled. It's stronger than it's ever been. That's what makes bitcoin such a potentially powerful store of value. It's security mechanism is incredibly anti-fragile. There's no throat anyone can choke. It's also globally available and permissionless, so it accepts everyone and anyone without judgement. These traits are powerful, in a different way than the power that backs the USD. That's why bitcoin matters.

arcticbull 5y ago
> Yes, the USD is backed by the most absurd proof of violence the world has ever seen. No organization of human civilization has ever been able to summon as much death and despair as the United States. That has nothing to do with the currency. I'm not saying its good, or bad, I'm saying you've stapled together two unrelated concepts. The US army is a small fraction of GDP and exists to support the defense of the US as a nation, and to further its interests abroad. That will remain the case whether the currency is fiat, gold, BTC or shoelaces. Unless you think that the army will be disbanded because BTC is going to make Xi Jinping come to the table with Tsai Ing-Wen over Baijiu and apologize, that the Sudanese are going to lay down their arms, Kim Jong-un is going to find Jesus and so on. However that's completely unfounded. The US army predates the fiat dollar by two hundred years. World wars were fought on the gold standard. Further, the backing of dollars is only in limited part due to "the army" - fractional reserve lending means that each time supply is added, demand for that supply is also created as the loan issued must be repaid with those same dollars. This is what actually fully backs the dollar. It's also why countries that use the USD, like El Salvador, have their own armies. And why some countries that use fiat dollars don't have armies at all, like Japan and Iceland. There is no causative relationship between fiat money and armies. There is a causative relationship between the existence of militaristic states and armies. There are hundreds of years of proof that the backing of the currency has little or no bearing. This theory is a pile of misconceptions stacked on top of each other.
- stickfigure 5y ago
  Without the aircraft carriers, any mildly malevolent nation could print dollars. Some already try. There's no question that a large military is necessary to preserve USD as a world currency. You can't ignore this cost. Maybe the US would cut military spending, maybe not, but as long as it wants USD to be the coin of the realm, there's no choice in the matter.
  - bubbleRefuge 5y ago
    He is right in the figurative sense that the government's power to tax and spend in its own fiat currency is what drives demand for the currency. W. Mosler, one of the founders of MMT, has this allegory: If we are in a room full of people with a single exit and I am blocking the exit with a gun in my hand and tell you you need one my business cards to exit the room, then my business card has value.
    - stickfigure 5y ago
      Sure, but the issue is not demand but supply. Enforcing the scarcity of USD requires a large military. Enforcing the scarcity of BTC merely requires electricity.
      - arcticbull 5y ago
        It merely requires massive amounts of electricity and e-waste vastly disproportional to its benefit and proportional to its price. Don't mince words.
        swader999 5y ago
        Proof of stake is just a fork that'll happen whenever there's enough force applied by the power providers. This excess low cost energy that can't be moved easily to other areas is often the only kind of energy bitcoin can use to win the economics of btc mining. It in fact subsidizes a lot of green energy and makes it more viable in the longer term.

arcticbull 5y ago

> Yes, the USD is backed by the most absurd proof of violence the world has ever seen. No organization of human civilization has ever been able to summon as much death and despair as the United States. That has nothing to do with the currency. I'm not saying its good, or bad, I'm saying you've stapled together two unrelated concepts. The US army is a small fraction of GDP and exists to support the defense of the US as a nation, and to further its interests abroad. That will remain the case whether the currency is fiat, gold, BTC or shoelaces. Unless you think that the army will be disbanded because BTC is going to make Xi Jinping come to the table with Tsai Ing-Wen over Baijiu and apologize, that the Sudanese are going to lay down their arms, Kim Jong-un is going to find Jesus and so on. However that's completely unfounded. The US army predates the fiat dollar by two hundred years. World wars were fought on the gold standard. Further, the backing of dollars is only in limited part due to "the army" - fractional reserve lending means that each time supply is added, demand for that supply is also created as the loan issued must be repaid with those same dollars. This is what actually fully backs the dollar. It's also why countries that use the USD, like El Salvador, have their own armies. And why some countries that use fiat dollars don't have armies at all, like Japan and Iceland. There is no causative relationship between fiat money and armies. There is a causative relationship between the existence of militaristic states and armies. There are hundreds of years of proof that the backing of the currency has little or no bearing. This theory is a pile of misconceptions stacked on top of each other.

stickfigure 5y ago
Without the aircraft carriers, any mildly malevolent nation could print dollars. Some already try. There's no question that a large military is necessary to preserve USD as a world currency. You can't ignore this cost. Maybe the US would cut military spending, maybe not, but as long as it wants USD to be the coin of the realm, there's no choice in the matter.
- bubbleRefuge 5y ago
  He is right in the figurative sense that the government's power to tax and spend in its own fiat currency is what drives demand for the currency. W. Mosler, one of the founders of MMT, has this allegory: If we are in a room full of people with a single exit and I am blocking the exit with a gun in my hand and tell you you need one my business cards to exit the room, then my business card has value.
  - stickfigure 5y ago
    Sure, but the issue is not demand but supply. Enforcing the scarcity of USD requires a large military. Enforcing the scarcity of BTC merely requires electricity.
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      It merely requires massive amounts of electricity and e-waste vastly disproportional to its benefit and proportional to its price. Don't mince words.
      - swader999 5y ago
        Proof of stake is just a fork that'll happen whenever there's enough force applied by the power providers. This excess low cost energy that can't be moved easily to other areas is often the only kind of energy bitcoin can use to win the economics of btc mining. It in fact subsidizes a lot of green energy and makes it more viable in the longer term.