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Nearly every major manufacturer has a separate emergency stop system that continually looks for an obstacle in the vehicle's path and applies braking force, ove

by raylad 5y ago

Nearly every major manufacturer has a separate emergency stop system that continually looks for an obstacle in the vehicle's path and applies braking force, overriding the driver and any cruise control or self-driving that is in use. These often use RADAR, have worked for years, and are routinely tested by international agencies such as the IIHS. See, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJgUiZgX5rE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJgUiZgX5rE Teslas at least used to do this too: https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/performance-of-pedestrian-crash-prevention-varies-among-midsize-cars https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/performance-of-pedestrian-c... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJJfn2tO5fo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJJfn2tO5fo If Teslas no longer have this functionality, is a serious problem that needs to be corrected. That could mean reprogramming existing cameras or adding a sensor if the system really did rely on the now-removed RADAR.

eightysixfour 5y ago
That's not true and you are confusing different features. AEB and Autopilot/Assisted Cruise Control do not behave the same. Here's some articles I found with a google of "radar cruise control stationary object." https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/06/why-emergency-braking-systems-sometimes-hit-parked-cars-and-lane-dividers/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/06/why-emergency-braking-s... > But while there's obviously room for improvement, the reality is that the behavior of Tesla's driver assistance technology here isn't that different from that of competing systems from other carmakers. As surprising as it might seem, most of the driver-assistance systems on the roads today are simply not designed to prevent a crash in this kind of situation. > Sam Abuelsamid, an industry analyst at Navigant and former automotive engineer, tells Ars that it's "pretty much universal" that "vehicles are programmed to ignore stationary objects at higher speeds." Here's one with BMW owners asking about it: https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1738458 https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1738458 Here's a review of Cadillac's SuperCruise: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/14830/i-wrote-this-in-a-supercruise-equipped-cadillac-ct6-that-is-driving-itself https://www.thedrive.com/tech/14830/i-wrote-this-in-a-superc... > Related: All these types of semi-autonomous systems have a hard time identifying stationary cars—vehicles in stopped traffic on the highway, for example—as "targets" to avoid. Coming over a crest at 70 mph, I pick up the stopped traffic ahead of me far before the system does. I even give the system an extra second or two to identify that we're hurtling towards stopped traffic, but have to initiate braking. However, it's very likely that even at that speed, the car could have made the stop before an impact. And the feature you're thinking of, AEB and its limitations are here: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a24511826/safety-features-automatic-braking-system-tested-explained/ https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a24511826/safety-featu... > If traveling above 20 mph, the Volvo will not decelerate, according to its maker. > No car in our test could avoid a collision beyond 30 mph, and as we neared that upper limit, the Tesla and the Subaru provided no warning or braking.
- raylad 5y ago
  The Toyota Safety Sense system will slow the car down by 25MPH regardless of its initial speed (except possibly for "very high speeds"). It makes no sense to give up entirely when an application of brakes would reduce damage. In the case of this accident, the vehicle not only didn't apply brakes but continued to accelerate after it hit me (the double hit). This may or may not have been operator error, but the driver says she was on autopilot, that there was an OTA update issue, and that it has happened before. This all seems to suggest an investigation is appropriate and necessary.
  - eightysixfour 5y ago
    I don't see why this has anything to do with Toyota's system, which by the way, had a recall for TSS braking due to stationary objects. You're mad, I get it, but you need to take this up with the driver (who claims she had a failed OTA update, which caused her to wreck, AND THEN DROVE AND WRECKED AGAIN) whose insurance will take it up with Tesla. It isn't your job to figure out why the car did it.
    - raylad 5y ago
      The point is that it not only didn't slow down but accelerated.
      - eightysixfour 5y ago
        Okay, and? The only point here is that you were hit by an inattentive driver who didn't maintain control of her vehicle twice in one day. She put you in danger and your life at risk, and you're blaming the car.

by raylad 5y ago

eightysixfour 5y ago

That's not true and you are confusing different features. AEB and Autopilot/Assisted Cruise Control do not behave the same. Here's some articles I found with a google of "radar cruise control stationary object." https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/06/why-emergency-braking-systems-sometimes-hit-parked-cars-and-lane-dividers/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/06/why-emergency-braking-s... > But while there's obviously room for improvement, the reality is that the behavior of Tesla's driver assistance technology here isn't that different from that of competing systems from other carmakers. As surprising as it might seem, most of the driver-assistance systems on the roads today are simply not designed to prevent a crash in this kind of situation. > Sam Abuelsamid, an industry analyst at Navigant and former automotive engineer, tells Ars that it's "pretty much universal" that "vehicles are programmed to ignore stationary objects at higher speeds." Here's one with BMW owners asking about it: https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1738458 https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1738458 Here's a review of Cadillac's SuperCruise: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/14830/i-wrote-this-in-a-supercruise-equipped-cadillac-ct6-that-is-driving-itself https://www.thedrive.com/tech/14830/i-wrote-this-in-a-superc... > Related: All these types of semi-autonomous systems have a hard time identifying stationary cars—vehicles in stopped traffic on the highway, for example—as "targets" to avoid. Coming over a crest at 70 mph, I pick up the stopped traffic ahead of me far before the system does. I even give the system an extra second or two to identify that we're hurtling towards stopped traffic, but have to initiate braking. However, it's very likely that even at that speed, the car could have made the stop before an impact. And the feature you're thinking of, AEB and its limitations are here: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a24511826/safety-features-automatic-braking-system-tested-explained/ https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a24511826/safety-featu... > If traveling above 20 mph, the Volvo will not decelerate, according to its maker. > No car in our test could avoid a collision beyond 30 mph, and as we neared that upper limit, the Tesla and the Subaru provided no warning or braking.

raylad 5y ago
The Toyota Safety Sense system will slow the car down by 25MPH regardless of its initial speed (except possibly for "very high speeds"). It makes no sense to give up entirely when an application of brakes would reduce damage. In the case of this accident, the vehicle not only didn't apply brakes but continued to accelerate after it hit me (the double hit). This may or may not have been operator error, but the driver says she was on autopilot, that there was an OTA update issue, and that it has happened before. This all seems to suggest an investigation is appropriate and necessary.
- eightysixfour 5y ago
  I don't see why this has anything to do with Toyota's system, which by the way, had a recall for TSS braking due to stationary objects. You're mad, I get it, but you need to take this up with the driver (who claims she had a failed OTA update, which caused her to wreck, AND THEN DROVE AND WRECKED AGAIN) whose insurance will take it up with Tesla. It isn't your job to figure out why the car did it.
  - raylad 5y ago
    The point is that it not only didn't slow down but accelerated.
    - eightysixfour 5y ago
      Okay, and? The only point here is that you were hit by an inattentive driver who didn't maintain control of her vehicle twice in one day. She put you in danger and your life at risk, and you're blaming the car.