5 ms·

Just got a new phone and migrating Signal was a total disaster. The first thing I did was login to the new phone which is apparently the wrong thing to do becau

Just got a new phone and migrating Signal was a total disaster. The first thing I did was login to the new phone which is apparently the wrong thing to do because you lose all your old messages and there's no option to import after you login. You have to logout but there is no logout. Gotta uninstall and reinstall, or clear app data. Next I tried the account migration feature which requires using both phones simultaneously, hope you didn't erase your old phone yet. But it doesn't work anyway, it's just broken. So after failing at that several times, then I had to manually make a backup on the old phone, write down a 20 digit numeric code that's only displayed once on screen, transfer the backup file manually, type the code on the new phone, and then it logged me in but silently failed to import the backup. Had to uninstall again and did the exact same steps again and then it finally worked. What a travesty. Security shouldn't come with this kind of UX disaster.

LogonType10 5y ago
Sounds like you footgunned yourself. When starting Signal for the first time it gives the option to register OR migrate old account. There's no UI in the world that can totally protect users from themselves.
- gugagore 5y ago
  That's only one part of the struggle that was mentioned. Even when using the migration feature, the comment reported it not working, and needing to manually transfer the backup file.
rlpb 5y ago
I recently moved phones and had the opposite experience. The Signal migration went very smoothly. Moving WhatsApp did not. I ended up managing to do it but not before about five attempts, each of which made me reauth my phone number and I hit rate limiting, etc.
pocketlim 5y ago
Recently got a new phone and the transition was super smooth. Tried to open Signal on the new phone, it somehow knew that I needed to transfer my backup, asked me to scan a QR code and keep the phones close together, a minute or so later, and done. Signal logged me out on the older device when it was finished. I've learned this lesson before though. Always keep your old phone around while transitioning to a new device in case you need to pull anything off of it.
- robbedpeter 5y ago
  Much like not quitting a job without having new employment lined up, it's a good idea to get a new phone or pc while your current device is still in good enough condition that migration is easy. If you ride it to failure things get messy.
- jcelerier 5y ago
  ... you never had a phone break down ? Now 8'm stressed about what will happen to my signal messages when my current phone inevitably suffers from a dreadful fate
aeturnum 5y ago
I do think it's too easy to do it the Wrong Way, but I've easily migrated from phone to phone several times now with both techniques and think they alright. Signal presents both a "create account" or a "migrate account" option on a fresh install, which seems like the best compromise for UX flow. Also, considering their guarantee is to keep your messages secure, of course you need your old phone. If you wipe your phone that securely contains all your old messages they are gone. That is security. That said, if you have the backup of your messages and the code, then the developers might be able to debug what caused the migrations to fail if you submit a bug.
scotu 5y ago
I just want to add that you cannot migrate across ios and android, at all :( https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Backup-and-Restore-Messages https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Ba...
- doublepg23 5y ago
  This bit me when moving to iOS. Thankfully I didn't use Signal all that much, but I did "sign" some far away friends keys before so that was disappointing...
stereoradonc 5y ago
Try Telegram. It's easier to get seduced by tall sounding words like "cryptography", censorship, "security", anonymity etc. Those are just buzz words. Try something that works seamlessly across platforms.
- bryans 5y ago
  End-to-end encryption is not just some buzz word, and Telegram requires you to opt-in to encryption, making it absurdly insecure by default.
  - johnisgood 5y ago
    And there is no E2EE on desktop. People should really stop talking about Telegram when we are talking about secure private messaging apps. Telegram DOES NOT HAVE E2EE on desktop and it is opt-in on phones. Briar is the best choice on phones, and it is also available on desktop which is under development. For now, Ricochet is the best choice on desktop (only). I get that it would be nice to have a piece of software working on both desktop and phone, but still. For that I just use Element.
    - avinassh 5y ago
      I see an option of secret chat in my desktop app. Is that not E2EE? Because its the same option in mobile
      - johnisgood 5y ago
        https://tsf.telegram.org/manuals/e2ee-simple#2-why-are-there-no-secret-chats-on-desktop-apps https://tsf.telegram.org/manuals/e2ee-simple#2-why-are-there...
- robbedpeter 5y ago
  This is nonsense, and borderline malicious. Privacy used to be the default mode for human existence. You had to go out of your way to attract enough interest, positive or negative, to have that privacy curtailed, even in minor ways. In the information age, privacy is liberty. Unless you take specific action to prevent it, all of your information is surveilled. Encryption allows you to protect the content of your communications from intrusion. Ephemerality removes the traces of your communications to prevent future intrusion. Those two features reset human communication to the state of nature, allowing people the room to think and communicate difficult things in a context of trust. When people are monitored, they limit themselves to thoughts and discussions that are socially acceptable. This leads to groupthink, siloing people within a collectively imagined social ideal which is readily shaped by the ones doing the surveillance. The outrage mobs, public ridicule, and notorious cancelations are communicated far and wide, and the narratives conveyed about the context of those moralistic social displays are the levers of power being moved to influence social momentum. Marketing, politics, religion, social movements, and all manner of ideologies use the violation of privacy to amplify their reach and influence without the benefit of rational discussion and tests of validity that would have prevented such memes from gaining traction in the past. Authoritarianism seeks the destruction of privacy. Whether it's a dictatorship, a cult, an invasive workplace, or platform, they degrade privacy as much as they can in order to exploit the resulting loss of individual liberty and agency. So no, censorship is real. Cryptography is a tool that sets people in their proper place as sovereign human beings. Privacy, security, and anonymity give people the ability to speak on equal footing with any group or organization or fellow human. By using apps and platforms and services that don't respect privacy, you're willingly accepting a second class status, ceding your right to express ideas that don't conform. Buzz words my ass.
AnonC 5y ago
Sounds like you were migrating from one Android phone to another. Try the same with iOS and you wouldn't even have any backup option to try out. The loss of older messages is the worst thing that a chat app could have, but it's still marketed as a general purpose chat app.
diggernet 5y ago
Yeah, this is the #1 issue that holds me back from recommending Signal to everyone in my network. It seems like there are just too many ways to end up in an unrecoverable state. Phone died, lost, or stolen? Can't migrate. Phone number changed? Can't restore backup. And so on. Sure would be nice if there was at least a standalone viewer app which would let you view backups even if you can't restore them.
- tata71 5y ago
  It's almost like keeping the messages secure is more important than persistence for the creators, and main stakeholders.
  - diggernet 5y ago
    It's exactly like that. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. But handling use cases like reading your own safely encrypted past messages after your phone number changes seems pretty reasonable to me.

LogonType10 5y ago

Sounds like you footgunned yourself. When starting Signal for the first time it gives the option to register OR migrate old account. There's no UI in the world that can totally protect users from themselves.

gugagore 5y ago
That's only one part of the struggle that was mentioned. Even when using the migration feature, the comment reported it not working, and needing to manually transfer the backup file.

rlpb 5y ago

I recently moved phones and had the opposite experience. The Signal migration went very smoothly. Moving WhatsApp did not. I ended up managing to do it but not before about five attempts, each of which made me reauth my phone number and I hit rate limiting, etc.

pocketlim 5y ago

Recently got a new phone and the transition was super smooth. Tried to open Signal on the new phone, it somehow knew that I needed to transfer my backup, asked me to scan a QR code and keep the phones close together, a minute or so later, and done. Signal logged me out on the older device when it was finished. I've learned this lesson before though. Always keep your old phone around while transitioning to a new device in case you need to pull anything off of it.

robbedpeter 5y ago
Much like not quitting a job without having new employment lined up, it's a good idea to get a new phone or pc while your current device is still in good enough condition that migration is easy. If you ride it to failure things get messy.
jcelerier 5y ago
... you never had a phone break down ? Now 8'm stressed about what will happen to my signal messages when my current phone inevitably suffers from a dreadful fate

aeturnum 5y ago

I do think it's too easy to do it the Wrong Way, but I've easily migrated from phone to phone several times now with both techniques and think they alright. Signal presents both a "create account" or a "migrate account" option on a fresh install, which seems like the best compromise for UX flow. Also, considering their guarantee is to keep your messages secure, of course you need your old phone. If you wipe your phone that securely contains all your old messages they are gone. That is security. That said, if you have the backup of your messages and the code, then the developers might be able to debug what caused the migrations to fail if you submit a bug.

scotu 5y ago

I just want to add that you cannot migrate across ios and android, at all :( https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Backup-and-Restore-Messages https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Ba...

doublepg23 5y ago
This bit me when moving to iOS. Thankfully I didn't use Signal all that much, but I did "sign" some far away friends keys before so that was disappointing...

stereoradonc 5y ago

Try Telegram. It's easier to get seduced by tall sounding words like "cryptography", censorship, "security", anonymity etc. Those are just buzz words. Try something that works seamlessly across platforms.

bryans 5y ago
End-to-end encryption is not just some buzz word, and Telegram requires you to opt-in to encryption, making it absurdly insecure by default.
- johnisgood 5y ago
  And there is no E2EE on desktop. People should really stop talking about Telegram when we are talking about secure private messaging apps. Telegram DOES NOT HAVE E2EE on desktop and it is opt-in on phones. Briar is the best choice on phones, and it is also available on desktop which is under development. For now, Ricochet is the best choice on desktop (only). I get that it would be nice to have a piece of software working on both desktop and phone, but still. For that I just use Element.
  - avinassh 5y ago
    I see an option of secret chat in my desktop app. Is that not E2EE? Because its the same option in mobile
    - johnisgood 5y ago
      https://tsf.telegram.org/manuals/e2ee-simple#2-why-are-there-no-secret-chats-on-desktop-apps https://tsf.telegram.org/manuals/e2ee-simple#2-why-are-there...
robbedpeter 5y ago
This is nonsense, and borderline malicious. Privacy used to be the default mode for human existence. You had to go out of your way to attract enough interest, positive or negative, to have that privacy curtailed, even in minor ways. In the information age, privacy is liberty. Unless you take specific action to prevent it, all of your information is surveilled. Encryption allows you to protect the content of your communications from intrusion. Ephemerality removes the traces of your communications to prevent future intrusion. Those two features reset human communication to the state of nature, allowing people the room to think and communicate difficult things in a context of trust. When people are monitored, they limit themselves to thoughts and discussions that are socially acceptable. This leads to groupthink, siloing people within a collectively imagined social ideal which is readily shaped by the ones doing the surveillance. The outrage mobs, public ridicule, and notorious cancelations are communicated far and wide, and the narratives conveyed about the context of those moralistic social displays are the levers of power being moved to influence social momentum. Marketing, politics, religion, social movements, and all manner of ideologies use the violation of privacy to amplify their reach and influence without the benefit of rational discussion and tests of validity that would have prevented such memes from gaining traction in the past. Authoritarianism seeks the destruction of privacy. Whether it's a dictatorship, a cult, an invasive workplace, or platform, they degrade privacy as much as they can in order to exploit the resulting loss of individual liberty and agency. So no, censorship is real. Cryptography is a tool that sets people in their proper place as sovereign human beings. Privacy, security, and anonymity give people the ability to speak on equal footing with any group or organization or fellow human. By using apps and platforms and services that don't respect privacy, you're willingly accepting a second class status, ceding your right to express ideas that don't conform. Buzz words my ass.

AnonC 5y ago

Sounds like you were migrating from one Android phone to another. Try the same with iOS and you wouldn't even have any backup option to try out. The loss of older messages is the worst thing that a chat app could have, but it's still marketed as a general purpose chat app.

diggernet 5y ago

Yeah, this is the #1 issue that holds me back from recommending Signal to everyone in my network. It seems like there are just too many ways to end up in an unrecoverable state. Phone died, lost, or stolen? Can't migrate. Phone number changed? Can't restore backup. And so on. Sure would be nice if there was at least a standalone viewer app which would let you view backups even if you can't restore them.

tata71 5y ago
It's almost like keeping the messages secure is more important than persistence for the creators, and main stakeholders.
- diggernet 5y ago
  It's exactly like that. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. But handling use cases like reading your own safely encrypted past messages after your phone number changes seems pretty reasonable to me.