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Amazing how many people are die hard advocates of being closed minded. The net market for crypto hits over a trillion dollars, and you still say things like th

by nscalf 5y ago

Amazing how many people are die hard advocates of being closed minded. The net market for crypto hits over a trillion dollars, and you still say things like this declaring they are proven to be worthless. This is posted on a report by the US government on a technology that is effectively a digital wrapper to use the US dollar easily online. How is there no worth in that? Out of curiosity, what would it take to change your mind on this? Is there not even a single dollar of real value in the crypto world?

ForHackernews 5y ago
Monero and other privacy coins have some real utility for enabling drug sales, tax evasion and ransomware. In terms of above-board use cases, I'm deeply skeptical.
mosdl 5y ago
I can already use the us dollar easily online.
- lowkey 5y ago
  Yes, but you likely live in a first-world country with generous options for banking. Bitcoin can serve anyone anywhere, regardless if they live in a privileged country or not. Try using your USD bank to send/receive money as a citizen of Iran or Libya or Nigeria. There are over 1 billion unbanked in the world today. They cannot use the US dollar easily online.
  - SavantIdiot 5y ago
    This is the fallback argument crypto enthusiasts use when their primary arguments fail. I'd like to learn more about the truth to this claim.
    - lowkey 5y ago
      I work on an international team and 2 of our devs are based in Nigeria. Nigeria currently suffers from 16% annual inflation and so the people have flocked to crypto as a store of value. Over 20% of the population uses cryptocurrencies. There are many more examples including Venezuela, Iran, the West Bank, and El Salvador.
  - mosdl 5y ago
    You still need internet and some device to use crypto. Many don't have that.
    - lowkey 5y ago
      Consider that many more have internet and a smartphone than a bank account. There are over 1 billion unbanked in the world, many of those have internet and smartphones. You would be surprised at the spread of smartphones amongst the world's poor - much greater than the prevalence of bank accounts with FDIC insurance or the equivalent.
- rglullis 5y ago
  Now to go Argentina and dare to say the same thing. Or go sell something with a high risk of fraud and see how how much the credit card companies will charge you.
emerongi 5y ago
I think what would change people's minds is crypto surviving an economic downturn. I'd expect crypto as a whole to survive, but all the useless hype-/shitcoins to get wiped out. Same as with the dotcom bubble and housing bubble.
pcwalton 5y ago
> The net market for crypto hits over a trillion dollars At its peak, the gross size of Madoff's investment scheme was $64.8 billion. > a digital wrapper to use the US dollar easily online. How is there no worth in that? Because it's harder, and less safe, to use Tether than to enter my credit card number on a Web site.
- rglullis 5y ago
  Then don't use Tether. Plenty of more reputable companies and projects providing stabletokens with strong (USDC, GUSD) or soft (DAI, sUSD) pegs to the dollar. Also, you are missing the point of view of the merchant and the amount of possibilities that open with crypto. E.g, you can sell digital goods with zero risk of fraud or chargebacks, to anyone in the world, at whatever price point. No credit card operator will ever be able to do that.
SavantIdiot 5y ago
I'd like to see people actually spending it day to day items, rather than hoarding it or spending it on blackmarket/illegal goods. There's a claim that people send money home to families in other countries, but I don't see how that could be trillions? And when pressed, enthusiasts hide behind "third world" claims. No one is buying groceries with it. No one is buying commodities with it. People are buying it to get rich. Even in El Salvador, it failed immediately because the transaction fees were too high and the stipend given to citizens swung in value too radically. I will be convinced when people are buying groceries with it and not trying to become crypto mill/billionaires overnight.

by nscalf 5y ago

ForHackernews 5y ago

Monero and other privacy coins have some real utility for enabling drug sales, tax evasion and ransomware. In terms of above-board use cases, I'm deeply skeptical.

mosdl 5y ago

I can already use the us dollar easily online.

lowkey 5y ago
Yes, but you likely live in a first-world country with generous options for banking. Bitcoin can serve anyone anywhere, regardless if they live in a privileged country or not. Try using your USD bank to send/receive money as a citizen of Iran or Libya or Nigeria. There are over 1 billion unbanked in the world today. They cannot use the US dollar easily online.
- SavantIdiot 5y ago
  This is the fallback argument crypto enthusiasts use when their primary arguments fail. I'd like to learn more about the truth to this claim.
  - lowkey 5y ago
    I work on an international team and 2 of our devs are based in Nigeria. Nigeria currently suffers from 16% annual inflation and so the people have flocked to crypto as a store of value. Over 20% of the population uses cryptocurrencies. There are many more examples including Venezuela, Iran, the West Bank, and El Salvador.
- mosdl 5y ago
  You still need internet and some device to use crypto. Many don't have that.
  - lowkey 5y ago
    Consider that many more have internet and a smartphone than a bank account. There are over 1 billion unbanked in the world, many of those have internet and smartphones. You would be surprised at the spread of smartphones amongst the world's poor - much greater than the prevalence of bank accounts with FDIC insurance or the equivalent.
rglullis 5y ago
Now to go Argentina and dare to say the same thing. Or go sell something with a high risk of fraud and see how how much the credit card companies will charge you.

emerongi 5y ago

I think what would change people's minds is crypto surviving an economic downturn. I'd expect crypto as a whole to survive, but all the useless hype-/shitcoins to get wiped out. Same as with the dotcom bubble and housing bubble.

pcwalton 5y ago

> The net market for crypto hits over a trillion dollars At its peak, the gross size of Madoff's investment scheme was $64.8 billion. > a digital wrapper to use the US dollar easily online. How is there no worth in that? Because it's harder, and less safe, to use Tether than to enter my credit card number on a Web site.

rglullis 5y ago
Then don't use Tether. Plenty of more reputable companies and projects providing stabletokens with strong (USDC, GUSD) or soft (DAI, sUSD) pegs to the dollar. Also, you are missing the point of view of the merchant and the amount of possibilities that open with crypto. E.g, you can sell digital goods with zero risk of fraud or chargebacks, to anyone in the world, at whatever price point. No credit card operator will ever be able to do that.

SavantIdiot 5y ago

I'd like to see people actually spending it day to day items, rather than hoarding it or spending it on blackmarket/illegal goods. There's a claim that people send money home to families in other countries, but I don't see how that could be trillions? And when pressed, enthusiasts hide behind "third world" claims. No one is buying groceries with it. No one is buying commodities with it. People are buying it to get rich. Even in El Salvador, it failed immediately because the transaction fees were too high and the stipend given to citizens swung in value too radically. I will be convinced when people are buying groceries with it and not trying to become crypto mill/billionaires overnight.