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HP: To Save The webOS Dev Community, Open-Source Enyo Now

95 points by codedivine 15y ago

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
CrazedGeek 15y ago
Also, if you're feeling generous, open-source webOS too please? :)
trun 15y ago
"...one day your washing machine, stove, or even car infotainment system will run on webOS"[1] If this is truly the direction they're heading then webOS is dead to me anyhow. Any further courting of developers is just salt in the wound. edit: Don't get me wrong, I'm all for open sourcing Enyo and webOS, I just get the complete opposite vibe from HP's actions this week. They've basically said "screw you" both to die hard consumers and developers of the webOS platform. [1] http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/16/hp-looking-to-appliances-autos-to-grow-and-save-webos/ http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/16/hp-looking-to-appliances-au...
- schrototo 15y ago
  I thought most of webOS was built on somewhat high-level web technologies like node.js? Why would they use something like that in embedded systems?
  - masklinn 15y ago
    > I thought most of webOS was built on somewhat high-level web technologies like node.js? Yes. Enyo is webOS's second-generation SDK and development framework (replacing the original Mojo), and it's a javascript framework. FWIW, during the original presentation of Enyo (late 2010) it was described as "for resource-constrained devices" where "resource-constrained devices" are the original Pres: 500MHz CPU core and 256MB RAM.
HaloZero 15y ago
In case people were wondering what Enyo is, it's HP/Palm's Framework for building WebOS apps (or generally mobile apps using HTML).
- drgath 15y ago
  ... and it is just JS/HTML/CSS so it will run on any webkit browser and you can use it to write nice-looking mobile apps for iPhone, Android, etc...
drivebyacct2 15y ago
Please, please do this HP. WebOS is really impressive in terms of technologies in my opinion. You can build entire Enyo apps in your browser, add a few hooks for WebOS services, and you're done. It's crazy easy, and Enyo makes it equally easy to have one app that works well on mobile, tablet and desktop devices. It's a shame to see HP pull the rug out from under it, but I'm really hoping they open source Enyo or better webOS.
rbanffy 15y ago
Guys... The idiot who killed WebOS came from SAP. If you think Microsoft is evil, they are 10 times worse. > Release Enyo under a liberal open source license (Apache, MIT, etc) Why not GPL? That would ensure no competing platform could grab it and run.
- drivebyacct2 15y ago
  >Why not GPL? That would ensure no competing platform could grab it and run. Not that I don't like GPL, but why would HP care at this point? They just took their only viable product and said "Whatever". They act like they have an interest in licensing webOS. Ha! How long have they been shopping licensing? Even if it is true, they've just coated it in a nice splash of red paint.
  - rbanffy 15y ago
    > but why would HP care at this point? The GPL would ensure their competitors can't keep their improvements to themselves. But I agree - the odds of a former SAP kahuna understanding how to leverage open-source are very close to zero.
- sunchild 15y ago
  SAP's business model is to license a framework for waaay too much money. Then they tell you to hire one of their consulting partners to (not) make it work. Finger pointing in all directions when things go wrong – but one thing is for sure – you're paying for that license no matter what happens. Not a business model that is likely to understand webOS.
watmough 15y ago
I have to say that I was really impressed by the Netflix and Mail demos in this talk. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsZX2dJW5Ss http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsZX2dJW5Ss Assuming the speed was there, and it will be as hardware improves, WebOS could take over as a cross-platform rapid development environment. If this was open-sourced and made to look platform native on the iPad, I would use it for sure.
dstein 15y ago
Open souce isn't the only possibility. I think HP should skunkworks it. Round up all the engineers who developed the platform, form an independent LLC, retain an equity stake, and let them proceed with full autonomy. Tablet and smartphone hardware is going to get so dirt cheap in just a few years, that they'll probably be able to outsource all the hardware and run the operation like a scrappy startup.
- chollida1 15y ago
  Who supplies the funding for it? HP has already made it clear that they won't put in another dime. The problem with hardware is that the enterprise won't buy without a big name backing it as it makes it alot less likely that the brand will be around. I'd like to think that your idea will work. What is your "secret sauce" that will make this work that didn't with Palm, HP, the crunch pad, newton, Go tablet, etc?
  - dstein 15y ago
    Funding isn't a problem, there has never been a better time to raise money than right now. If WebOS could become the premier development platform (develop on WebOS, deploy to the web and others platforms via Phonegap) you could gain a following.
    - chollida1 15y ago
      > Funding isn't a problem, That's a pretty big assumption but lets say that's true. I don't doubt that they coudl raise some money, I'm just not sure that a WebOS company could raise enough to fund a complete hardware and software product through to finish. The biggest reason I think this wouldn't happen is that I can't see HP wanting to assign any patents to this company as patents have significant value, as we've seen of late. Who would support a company that doesn't own any sort of patent portfolio to defend itself?
- Apocryphon 15y ago
  Interesting, this is the third alternative I've heard of what HP should do with webOS, the others being open sourcing it or selling it to a company that will actually do something with it. Unfortunately, it seems like HP will probably lock webOS in a vault for its patents, dooming it to die.
rsanchez1 15y ago
Meh, I would just be fine with them allowing it on other platforms. Don't really care how they license it to make that happen.

95 points by codedivine 15y ago

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

CrazedGeek 15y ago

Also, if you're feeling generous, open-source webOS too please? :)

trun 15y ago

"...one day your washing machine, stove, or even car infotainment system will run on webOS"[1] If this is truly the direction they're heading then webOS is dead to me anyhow. Any further courting of developers is just salt in the wound. edit: Don't get me wrong, I'm all for open sourcing Enyo and webOS, I just get the complete opposite vibe from HP's actions this week. They've basically said "screw you" both to die hard consumers and developers of the webOS platform. [1] http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/16/hp-looking-to-appliances-autos-to-grow-and-save-webos/ http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/16/hp-looking-to-appliances-au...

schrototo 15y ago
I thought most of webOS was built on somewhat high-level web technologies like node.js? Why would they use something like that in embedded systems?
- masklinn 15y ago
  > I thought most of webOS was built on somewhat high-level web technologies like node.js? Yes. Enyo is webOS's second-generation SDK and development framework (replacing the original Mojo), and it's a javascript framework. FWIW, during the original presentation of Enyo (late 2010) it was described as "for resource-constrained devices" where "resource-constrained devices" are the original Pres: 500MHz CPU core and 256MB RAM.

HaloZero 15y ago

In case people were wondering what Enyo is, it's HP/Palm's Framework for building WebOS apps (or generally mobile apps using HTML).

drgath 15y ago
... and it is just JS/HTML/CSS so it will run on any webkit browser and you can use it to write nice-looking mobile apps for iPhone, Android, etc...

drivebyacct2 15y ago

Please, please do this HP. WebOS is really impressive in terms of technologies in my opinion. You can build entire Enyo apps in your browser, add a few hooks for WebOS services, and you're done. It's crazy easy, and Enyo makes it equally easy to have one app that works well on mobile, tablet and desktop devices. It's a shame to see HP pull the rug out from under it, but I'm really hoping they open source Enyo or better webOS.

rbanffy 15y ago

Guys... The idiot who killed WebOS came from SAP. If you think Microsoft is evil, they are 10 times worse. > Release Enyo under a liberal open source license (Apache, MIT, etc) Why not GPL? That would ensure no competing platform could grab it and run.

drivebyacct2 15y ago
>Why not GPL? That would ensure no competing platform could grab it and run. Not that I don't like GPL, but why would HP care at this point? They just took their only viable product and said "Whatever". They act like they have an interest in licensing webOS. Ha! How long have they been shopping licensing? Even if it is true, they've just coated it in a nice splash of red paint.
- rbanffy 15y ago
  > but why would HP care at this point? The GPL would ensure their competitors can't keep their improvements to themselves. But I agree - the odds of a former SAP kahuna understanding how to leverage open-source are very close to zero.
sunchild 15y ago
SAP's business model is to license a framework for waaay too much money. Then they tell you to hire one of their consulting partners to (not) make it work. Finger pointing in all directions when things go wrong – but one thing is for sure – you're paying for that license no matter what happens. Not a business model that is likely to understand webOS.

watmough 15y ago

I have to say that I was really impressed by the Netflix and Mail demos in this talk. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsZX2dJW5Ss http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsZX2dJW5Ss Assuming the speed was there, and it will be as hardware improves, WebOS could take over as a cross-platform rapid development environment. If this was open-sourced and made to look platform native on the iPad, I would use it for sure.

dstein 15y ago

Open souce isn't the only possibility. I think HP should skunkworks it. Round up all the engineers who developed the platform, form an independent LLC, retain an equity stake, and let them proceed with full autonomy. Tablet and smartphone hardware is going to get so dirt cheap in just a few years, that they'll probably be able to outsource all the hardware and run the operation like a scrappy startup.

chollida1 15y ago
Who supplies the funding for it? HP has already made it clear that they won't put in another dime. The problem with hardware is that the enterprise won't buy without a big name backing it as it makes it alot less likely that the brand will be around. I'd like to think that your idea will work. What is your "secret sauce" that will make this work that didn't with Palm, HP, the crunch pad, newton, Go tablet, etc?
- dstein 15y ago
  Funding isn't a problem, there has never been a better time to raise money than right now. If WebOS could become the premier development platform (develop on WebOS, deploy to the web and others platforms via Phonegap) you could gain a following.
  - chollida1 15y ago
    > Funding isn't a problem, That's a pretty big assumption but lets say that's true. I don't doubt that they coudl raise some money, I'm just not sure that a WebOS company could raise enough to fund a complete hardware and software product through to finish. The biggest reason I think this wouldn't happen is that I can't see HP wanting to assign any patents to this company as patents have significant value, as we've seen of late. Who would support a company that doesn't own any sort of patent portfolio to defend itself?
Apocryphon 15y ago
Interesting, this is the third alternative I've heard of what HP should do with webOS, the others being open sourcing it or selling it to a company that will actually do something with it. Unfortunately, it seems like HP will probably lock webOS in a vault for its patents, dooming it to die.

rsanchez1 15y ago

Meh, I would just be fine with them allowing it on other platforms. Don't really care how they license it to make that happen.