5 ms·

The 37-Year-Olds Are Afraid of the 23-Year-Olds Who Work for Them

5 points by throwawaysea 5y ago

giantg2 5y ago
‘We can actually do whatever we want and be just as successful.’ I haven't seen this. It's still very much "do what we tell you, or else". Delegating to your boss? I don't know about that. It sounds like the bosses just aren't strict. Many others would straighten you our. I've been ranked low in "organizational savvy" for way less. Where's the fear part? What exactly are they afraid of, not being cool?
- peakaboo 5y ago
  Younger people learn faster than older people but they also don't have the experience of older guys. So in my experience, younger people makes the same mistakes as we older people did (listen to IT trends, believing it will make things better when it usually makes things worse, etc). Older guys are worried about not being as smart as younger guys. But older guys also knows, being the smartest person in the room stops being important when you have lots of experience, because wisdom trumps intelligence.
  - galaxyLogic 5y ago
    I much agree. But there is this idea that progress progresses all the time therefore new tools to do your job with are better than older ones, else they would not come to the market. And younger people have easier time learning the new tools because they have to learn some tools to do their work with. Therefore younger people have an advantage, in that sense. Older people who don't know much about the new tools will look ignorant and are not much respected by the younger people. Younger people think they know it all because they don't know what they don't know, see Dunning-Kruger. Is this really so I don't really know but I think there is some logic to it.
- throwawaysea 5y ago
  The comments on this particular NYT article are also interesting in how consistent they are, critiquing the behaviors described in this article. There are even some Gen-Z users saying that most Gen-Z they personally know don't exhibit these traits and behaviors. I agree with your assessment. I didn't see the 'fear' part in these anecdotes so the title feels a bit clickbait-y. The article also is ultimately just quoting a series of anecdotes - and although the tone is to normalize those behaviors, I hope in actuality people don't do that.
steve_adams_86 5y ago
I haven't experienced any of this as I've gradually aged into being a 35 year old dinosaur. The people I work or have worked with in their 20s tend to be eager to share and learn, happy to adhere to whatever office schedule exists, and not very critical of what us elderly folks do. We usually have jokes going back and forth about our giant, unfathomable 10 year+ age gap. Maybe that's part of it though. We don't think of it as all that important or meaningful, we have fun with it, and our working conditions are pretty nice to start with so there's not much to rebel against. Overall I'm more afraid of the older people I work with if I were to use such a word. I'm pretty tired of convention over experimentation in the work place. I don't think strictly remote is inherently better than strictly office, but I know having options is superior that not having them. My friends and family are currently at the mercy of older people with old ideas around this matter, and yeah, that's much scarier than young people with new ideas that they care about. Generally I think you're better off listening to young people and thinking a lot about what they're up to, just as much as respecting the wisdom of older people. And of course, all that is because we as individuals are so often wrong. We can benefit a lot from those around us being right for us sometimes, old or young.
mixmastamyk 5y ago
I'm not sure any of this is as new as the article portrays. When I worked in medical in the early 90's we had a few "mental health days" off per year. When I worked in other industries they were called "floating holidays" instead. In addition to vacation/sick days. It was about flexibility, needed in the real world. I've worked in internet and entertainment companies, which typically require long hours. It was one reason they offered things like yoga classes and ping-pong tables, they improve productivity in the long run. Being overly-strict about these matters doesn't help, and was old-fashioned already by the year 2000. Not certain that increased politics in the workplace is a good thing. Seems to be a function of increased polarization in society supported by the media. How that turns out remains to be seen, but I suspect the struggle is not all that new either. How did the "Berkeley generation" from the late sixties adapt into the workplace? Finally, didn't really get the reference to the "laughing-sobbing" emoji. A few articles via google imply it might something to do with politics. But none of the ones I read bothered to define which symbol it was.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
evol262 5y ago
The author graduated high school when I was 30. This article is very much "I wish every company worked like these tiny ones I spoke with, so I'm gonna try to make this the reality". Unfortunately for Gen Z, they are not the first generation to think they are too smart or too good for their jobs/hours immediataly out of college. "I finished all my work, can I leave?" is just asking for more or more complex work. These people are entry-level performing entry-level jobs, and have no distinction between "a family member died/my child is sick so I can't come to work" and "I don't feel great, so I'm gonna skip class today". The world is not changing. All of this will go away. This doesn't mean that Gen Z's attitudes about corporate apathy are wrong, but there are some bridges companies don't want to burn, and that righteous sort of "bend the world to my will" attitude tends to fade with experience once you see the trail of wreckage you've left behind. Sure, it would be great if we could all work 3 hours a day, make great money, and do whatever we wanted with our lives, but wishing for that won't make it so, and while there is not a _direct_ correlation between time worked and salary, "I put in the minimum amount of effort then leave instead of improving thing" doesn't get you much further than living with your parents while you complain about how unaffordable the world is.
throwawaysea 5y ago
LinkedIn's editorial team also published a story that quotes reactions from people on LinkedIn to this New York Times news story. Reading the NYT article, I was a bit shocked at some of the behaviors like "delegating upwards", or using bad faith excuses to skip work, or bringing personal political agendas into the workplace. But it seems many on LinkedIn - or at least those cherry picked examples here - are cheering on these behaviors. https://www.linkedin.com/news/story/gen-z-workers-baffle-older-colleagues-4579321/ https://www.linkedin.com/news/story/gen-z-workers-baffle-old...
thunkshift1 5y ago
spoiler: no, they are not. Clickbaity, yellow journalism as usual.

5 points by throwawaysea 5y ago

‘We can actually do whatever we want and be just as successful.’ I haven't seen this. It's still very much "do what we tell you, or else". Delegating to your boss? I don't know about that. It sounds like the bosses just aren't strict. Many others would straighten you our. I've been ranked low in "organizational savvy" for way less. Where's the fear part? What exactly are they afraid of, not being cool?

peakaboo 5y ago
Younger people learn faster than older people but they also don't have the experience of older guys. So in my experience, younger people makes the same mistakes as we older people did (listen to IT trends, believing it will make things better when it usually makes things worse, etc). Older guys are worried about not being as smart as younger guys. But older guys also knows, being the smartest person in the room stops being important when you have lots of experience, because wisdom trumps intelligence.
- galaxyLogic 5y ago
  I much agree. But there is this idea that progress progresses all the time therefore new tools to do your job with are better than older ones, else they would not come to the market. And younger people have easier time learning the new tools because they have to learn some tools to do their work with. Therefore younger people have an advantage, in that sense. Older people who don't know much about the new tools will look ignorant and are not much respected by the younger people. Younger people think they know it all because they don't know what they don't know, see Dunning-Kruger. Is this really so I don't really know but I think there is some logic to it.
throwawaysea 5y ago
The comments on this particular NYT article are also interesting in how consistent they are, critiquing the behaviors described in this article. There are even some Gen-Z users saying that most Gen-Z they personally know don't exhibit these traits and behaviors. I agree with your assessment. I didn't see the 'fear' part in these anecdotes so the title feels a bit clickbait-y. The article also is ultimately just quoting a series of anecdotes - and although the tone is to normalize those behaviors, I hope in actuality people don't do that.

steve_adams_86 5y ago

I haven't experienced any of this as I've gradually aged into being a 35 year old dinosaur. The people I work or have worked with in their 20s tend to be eager to share and learn, happy to adhere to whatever office schedule exists, and not very critical of what us elderly folks do. We usually have jokes going back and forth about our giant, unfathomable 10 year+ age gap. Maybe that's part of it though. We don't think of it as all that important or meaningful, we have fun with it, and our working conditions are pretty nice to start with so there's not much to rebel against. Overall I'm more afraid of the older people I work with if I were to use such a word. I'm pretty tired of convention over experimentation in the work place. I don't think strictly remote is inherently better than strictly office, but I know having options is superior that not having them. My friends and family are currently at the mercy of older people with old ideas around this matter, and yeah, that's much scarier than young people with new ideas that they care about. Generally I think you're better off listening to young people and thinking a lot about what they're up to, just as much as respecting the wisdom of older people. And of course, all that is because we as individuals are so often wrong. We can benefit a lot from those around us being right for us sometimes, old or young.

mixmastamyk 5y ago

I'm not sure any of this is as new as the article portrays. When I worked in medical in the early 90's we had a few "mental health days" off per year. When I worked in other industries they were called "floating holidays" instead. In addition to vacation/sick days. It was about flexibility, needed in the real world. I've worked in internet and entertainment companies, which typically require long hours. It was one reason they offered things like yoga classes and ping-pong tables, they improve productivity in the long run. Being overly-strict about these matters doesn't help, and was old-fashioned already by the year 2000. Not certain that increased politics in the workplace is a good thing. Seems to be a function of increased polarization in society supported by the media. How that turns out remains to be seen, but I suspect the struggle is not all that new either. How did the "Berkeley generation" from the late sixties adapt into the workplace? Finally, didn't really get the reference to the "laughing-sobbing" emoji. A few articles via google imply it might something to do with politics. But none of the ones I read bothered to define which symbol it was.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

evol262 5y ago

The author graduated high school when I was 30. This article is very much "I wish every company worked like these tiny ones I spoke with, so I'm gonna try to make this the reality". Unfortunately for Gen Z, they are not the first generation to think they are too smart or too good for their jobs/hours immediataly out of college. "I finished all my work, can I leave?" is just asking for more or more complex work. These people are entry-level performing entry-level jobs, and have no distinction between "a family member died/my child is sick so I can't come to work" and "I don't feel great, so I'm gonna skip class today". The world is not changing. All of this will go away. This doesn't mean that Gen Z's attitudes about corporate apathy are wrong, but there are some bridges companies don't want to burn, and that righteous sort of "bend the world to my will" attitude tends to fade with experience once you see the trail of wreckage you've left behind. Sure, it would be great if we could all work 3 hours a day, make great money, and do whatever we wanted with our lives, but wishing for that won't make it so, and while there is not a _direct_ correlation between time worked and salary, "I put in the minimum amount of effort then leave instead of improving thing" doesn't get you much further than living with your parents while you complain about how unaffordable the world is.

throwawaysea 5y ago

LinkedIn's editorial team also published a story that quotes reactions from people on LinkedIn to this New York Times news story. Reading the NYT article, I was a bit shocked at some of the behaviors like "delegating upwards", or using bad faith excuses to skip work, or bringing personal political agendas into the workplace. But it seems many on LinkedIn - or at least those cherry picked examples here - are cheering on these behaviors. https://www.linkedin.com/news/story/gen-z-workers-baffle-older-colleagues-4579321/ https://www.linkedin.com/news/story/gen-z-workers-baffle-old...

thunkshift1 5y ago

spoiler: no, they are not. Clickbaity, yellow journalism as usual.