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The last 1.5 years has shown humans are just too tribal to come to a consensus on something as obvious as COVID. There is zero chance we are going to all agree

The last 1.5 years has shown humans are just too tribal to come to a consensus on something as obvious as COVID. There is zero chance we are going to all agree on climate change. Most companies and politicians think in short term intervals because of the systems we have devised. It seems to be that the most obvious solutions will be make amazing technology and make it as cheap or cheaper than the dirty competitors -- eventually, even the people that dont believe in climate change will be driving EVs, have solar panels on their roofs, and eating fake meat. Also, we should all be hoping there are some breakthroughs in nuclear (cheaper + safer reactors that leads to less regulation and allow nuclear to be more ubiquitous )

CodeGlitch 5y ago
This and getting people out of poverty. People out of poverty have a greater ability to deal with extreme climate events.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  People out of poverty also consume much more energy, so getting billions out of poverty without having a clean energy answer deployed might make things worse not better. (I’m not making a claim that we should slow either branch down nor keep people poor so only the rich can keep burning fossils.)
  - yostrovs 5y ago
    You will note that people in poverty pour their used oil into the street sewer, burn wood and coal for heat and cooking, and simply don't have time for worries beyond their immediate needs. If you want people to care about the environment, they must have their basic needs met.
- jfk13 5y ago
  Yes.... but the development that lifts people out of poverty may at the same time exacerbate the climate problems. I'm not sure we've yet reached the point of lifting people out of poverty in a climate-friendly way.
  - yostrovs 5y ago
    Therefore putting people into poverty may alleviate the risks of climate change. Have you ever thought of taking that option? Has anyone?
- throwaway210222 5y ago
  > … getting people out of poverty. We have only ever managed to get people out of poverty by increasing their per-capita energy usage. Any once we do, their families demand to maintain said standard of living that can only be met with enormous amounts of concentrated energy. We have - and continue - to do this using fossil fuels. Do you have another, secret, method?
  - CodeGlitch 5y ago
    > using fossil fuels They can skip the fossil fuels and go straight to green energy can they not? This will require advances in technology, and therefore should be our focus.
    - throwaway210222 5y ago
      > go straight to green energy can they not? No they cannot. We cannot even get Switzerland - small, rich, smart, friendly, good infrastructure, top class law, surrounded by mountains and water, etc. etc. to renewables in a decade.
      - CodeGlitch 5y ago
        Well with an attitude like that we won't...
        throwaway210222 5y ago
        Hope is not a strategy.
        CodeGlitch 5y ago
        Of course not, but it can feed into a strategy.
bigfudge 5y ago
Except that it's really only the US and various dysfunctional democracies like Brazil that have this problem. In large parts of Northern Europe this is/has been a reasonable consensus about what should be done and the impact of Covid has been well managed. The US needs to get it's act together, but it is possible to have functional civil society and make decisions in the common good.
- misiti3780 5y ago
  My assumption was that if the US (or anyone else) can build the technology, it will be imported and/or copied by everyone else.
- munk-a 5y ago
  Even Canada was pretty good about unity on the vaccine rollout - the Conservatives raised strong objections about the costs and approach but, outside some really fringe elements, have been pretty consistent in not directly contradicting health advice. Ditto for the NDP & Greens (well, the Greens are a bit weird and sorta anti-vax but they managed to keep their mouths mostly shut at least).
- boznz 5y ago
  Nope, its everywhere. Even the best managed countries have their share of idiots and rule-breakers. If the leaders are sensible they can mitigate a lot of this but obeying the law and common sense are not a given.
bigthymer 5y ago
> There is zero chance we are going to all agree on climate change I think if enough climate events happen to enough people around the country, a majority could develop that wants to take action. Unfortunately, I think getting people to make the necessary changes to have a meaningful impact is politically impossible.

CodeGlitch 5y ago

This and getting people out of poverty. People out of poverty have a greater ability to deal with extreme climate events.

sokoloff 5y ago
People out of poverty also consume much more energy, so getting billions out of poverty without having a clean energy answer deployed might make things worse not better. (I’m not making a claim that we should slow either branch down nor keep people poor so only the rich can keep burning fossils.)
- yostrovs 5y ago
  You will note that people in poverty pour their used oil into the street sewer, burn wood and coal for heat and cooking, and simply don't have time for worries beyond their immediate needs. If you want people to care about the environment, they must have their basic needs met.
jfk13 5y ago
Yes.... but the development that lifts people out of poverty may at the same time exacerbate the climate problems. I'm not sure we've yet reached the point of lifting people out of poverty in a climate-friendly way.
- yostrovs 5y ago
  Therefore putting people into poverty may alleviate the risks of climate change. Have you ever thought of taking that option? Has anyone?
throwaway210222 5y ago
> … getting people out of poverty. We have only ever managed to get people out of poverty by increasing their per-capita energy usage. Any once we do, their families demand to maintain said standard of living that can only be met with enormous amounts of concentrated energy. We have - and continue - to do this using fossil fuels. Do you have another, secret, method?
- CodeGlitch 5y ago
  > using fossil fuels They can skip the fossil fuels and go straight to green energy can they not? This will require advances in technology, and therefore should be our focus.
  - throwaway210222 5y ago
    > go straight to green energy can they not? No they cannot. We cannot even get Switzerland - small, rich, smart, friendly, good infrastructure, top class law, surrounded by mountains and water, etc. etc. to renewables in a decade.
    - CodeGlitch 5y ago
      Well with an attitude like that we won't...
      - throwaway210222 5y ago
        Hope is not a strategy.
        CodeGlitch 5y ago
        Of course not, but it can feed into a strategy.

bigfudge 5y ago

Except that it's really only the US and various dysfunctional democracies like Brazil that have this problem. In large parts of Northern Europe this is/has been a reasonable consensus about what should be done and the impact of Covid has been well managed. The US needs to get it's act together, but it is possible to have functional civil society and make decisions in the common good.

misiti3780 5y ago
My assumption was that if the US (or anyone else) can build the technology, it will be imported and/or copied by everyone else.
munk-a 5y ago
Even Canada was pretty good about unity on the vaccine rollout - the Conservatives raised strong objections about the costs and approach but, outside some really fringe elements, have been pretty consistent in not directly contradicting health advice. Ditto for the NDP & Greens (well, the Greens are a bit weird and sorta anti-vax but they managed to keep their mouths mostly shut at least).
boznz 5y ago
Nope, its everywhere. Even the best managed countries have their share of idiots and rule-breakers. If the leaders are sensible they can mitigate a lot of this but obeying the law and common sense are not a given.

bigthymer 5y ago

> There is zero chance we are going to all agree on climate change I think if enough climate events happen to enough people around the country, a majority could develop that wants to take action. Unfortunately, I think getting people to make the necessary changes to have a meaningful impact is politically impossible.