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Hey, my middle name is your username! Neat. Anyways, the pearl-clutching around "working for bad companies" is pretty misplaced. Every major company has things

by avree 5y ago

Hey, my middle name is your username! Neat. Anyways, the pearl-clutching around "working for bad companies" is pretty misplaced. Every major company has things they do that are bad; Google, Amazon, Netflix, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft to name a few are companies that regularly perpetrate evil daily. People need to work to earn a living, the idea that "they can easily just get a job somewhere else!" is a fallacy.

wizzwizz4 5y ago
Then don't work for a “major company”. There are hundreds – nay, tens of thousands – of other companies; heck, just Facebook alone has over a dozen household-name competitors.
mbesto 5y ago
> People need to work to earn a living, "Tragedy of the commons" much? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons > the idea that "they can easily just get a job somewhere else!" is a fallacy. Actually in today's tech driven world, this isn't hyperbole. There are more than enough opportunities for talented technologists to find opportunities outside of Facebook.
- jfrunyon 5y ago
  And most of those opportunities are just as bad, as the person you were replying to pointed out.
  - barbazoo 5y ago
    Not in a negative-impact-on-society kind of way
  - mbesto 5y ago
    Not really. Facebook's disinformation capabilities are far worse than Apple's or Googles. Key differentiation example - Apple doesn't have an algorithm that bubbles up iMessages in the interface. Even then, I'm not evening actually alluding to those companies - I'm talking about other tech start-ups, smaller companies, etc.
    - jfrunyon 5y ago
      "other tech start-ups, smaller companies, etc." tend to pay significantly less than Facebook.
      - mbesto 5y ago
        significantly less I can't take your comments seriously anymore. This isn't true by any stretch of the definition of "significantly less". Please do some basic research: https://www.glassdoor.com/research/jobs-companies-2019/ https://www.glassdoor.com/research/jobs-companies-2019/
marcellus23 5y ago
There's a huge number of companies out there that are not as evil as those big ones. And even among those big ones, there are obvious choices for ones that are more or less bad, to anyone with principles. And yes, it is pretty easy to find a job somewhere else if you have Google or Netflix on your resume. "every company does bad things and therefore they're all equally bad, phew, now I don't have to leave my cushy $300K FAANG job where I push microtransactions to little kids" is not very convincing. It comes down to greed and prestige; that's all.
- 1024core 5y ago
  > There's a huge number of companies out there that are not as evil as those big ones. Facebook didn't start off targeting 6yos. Once you go public, you're on a treadmill to keep delivering profits for Wall Street. So who's to say that the new startup you join will continue to be this angel who does no evil?
  - MiguelX413 5y ago
    Who's to say that you have to stay at the new startup you join if they start going that direction too?
lowkey_ 5y ago
> People need to work to earn a living, the idea that "they can easily just get a job somewhere else!" is a fallacy. Do you know anyone at FB? I know several engineers at FB, and it's a fallacy to think they can't easily get offers from many top startups, and other FAANG companies.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- avree 5y ago
  Yes, I know many people at FB. I wasn't saying they aren't talented enough to work with other FAANG companies; if you read my entire comment I'm saying that every company has things you can be morally outraged about, so unless you want to cycle through seed-round stage startups every 6 months, you're probably going to run into some things you're not a fan of in your career as an engineer.
  - lowkey_ 5y ago
    Clearly by everyone's perspective on HN, we can establish that there's few companies in the same category as FB. Maybe Experian or something, but I doubt anyone at FB would go there? Arguably it's so much worse to work at FB, because if you can work at FB, you can clearly work at many decent companies that aren't doing this sort of stuff.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
subsubzero 5y ago
FB interview standards are extremely high. People who work there, probably about 95% of them could work at any other tech company if they choose to. What keeps a majority of the people there I would assume is 2 things, #1. The pay is very close to top in the industry, hedgefunds/netflix pay usually more. #2. Getting to work on products/features that are used by millions and sometimes billions of users, not many companies can offer that to a candidate. I personally am hounded by their recruiters but will never work there due to moral objections about their leadership and their companies effect on society. That being said I am not judging people for working there, everyone has a free choice to make and some people may not have my convictions and there are many great people who do work there.
- avree 5y ago
  Yes, that is the point I was attempting to make. These people are talented enough to work anywhere, but could they make the same pay? Is it guaranteed they won't run into something as morally troubling to them, such as Microsoft/Google's partnerships with ICE and aggressive seeking of defensive contracts, for example?
CyanBird 5y ago
> Every major company has things they do that are bad I am sorry, but funding random shows that people might not like as Netflix does is quite below the "evilness" meter of setting up ways to target 6 year Olds..... The fact that you are even trying to equate these as being anywhere the same, at least in my eyes strongly strongly undermines your capacity to make moral judgments
- ta20211004_1 5y ago
  Google "Netflix Kids".
- avree 5y ago
  What level of moral outrage should cause someone to want to quit their job? Does Microsoft's repeated contracts with ICE count? Netflix's ads for content like "Cuties" showing children "twerking" and doing other sexual provocative poses (plus the current strikes from their trans employees and their handling of it)?

by avree 5y ago

wizzwizz4 5y ago

Then don't work for a “major company”. There are hundreds – nay, tens of thousands – of other companies; heck, just Facebook alone has over a dozen household-name competitors.

mbesto 5y ago

> People need to work to earn a living, "Tragedy of the commons" much? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons > the idea that "they can easily just get a job somewhere else!" is a fallacy. Actually in today's tech driven world, this isn't hyperbole. There are more than enough opportunities for talented technologists to find opportunities outside of Facebook.

jfrunyon 5y ago
And most of those opportunities are just as bad, as the person you were replying to pointed out.
- barbazoo 5y ago
  Not in a negative-impact-on-society kind of way
- mbesto 5y ago
  Not really. Facebook's disinformation capabilities are far worse than Apple's or Googles. Key differentiation example - Apple doesn't have an algorithm that bubbles up iMessages in the interface. Even then, I'm not evening actually alluding to those companies - I'm talking about other tech start-ups, smaller companies, etc.
  - jfrunyon 5y ago
    "other tech start-ups, smaller companies, etc." tend to pay significantly less than Facebook.
    - mbesto 5y ago
      significantly less I can't take your comments seriously anymore. This isn't true by any stretch of the definition of "significantly less". Please do some basic research: https://www.glassdoor.com/research/jobs-companies-2019/ https://www.glassdoor.com/research/jobs-companies-2019/

marcellus23 5y ago

There's a huge number of companies out there that are not as evil as those big ones. And even among those big ones, there are obvious choices for ones that are more or less bad, to anyone with principles. And yes, it is pretty easy to find a job somewhere else if you have Google or Netflix on your resume. "every company does bad things and therefore they're all equally bad, phew, now I don't have to leave my cushy $300K FAANG job where I push microtransactions to little kids" is not very convincing. It comes down to greed and prestige; that's all.

1024core 5y ago
> There's a huge number of companies out there that are not as evil as those big ones. Facebook didn't start off targeting 6yos. Once you go public, you're on a treadmill to keep delivering profits for Wall Street. So who's to say that the new startup you join will continue to be this angel who does no evil?
- MiguelX413 5y ago
  Who's to say that you have to stay at the new startup you join if they start going that direction too?

lowkey_ 5y ago

> People need to work to earn a living, the idea that "they can easily just get a job somewhere else!" is a fallacy. Do you know anyone at FB? I know several engineers at FB, and it's a fallacy to think they can't easily get offers from many top startups, and other FAANG companies.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
avree 5y ago
Yes, I know many people at FB. I wasn't saying they aren't talented enough to work with other FAANG companies; if you read my entire comment I'm saying that every company has things you can be morally outraged about, so unless you want to cycle through seed-round stage startups every 6 months, you're probably going to run into some things you're not a fan of in your career as an engineer.
- lowkey_ 5y ago
  Clearly by everyone's perspective on HN, we can establish that there's few companies in the same category as FB. Maybe Experian or something, but I doubt anyone at FB would go there? Arguably it's so much worse to work at FB, because if you can work at FB, you can clearly work at many decent companies that aren't doing this sort of stuff.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

subsubzero 5y ago

FB interview standards are extremely high. People who work there, probably about 95% of them could work at any other tech company if they choose to. What keeps a majority of the people there I would assume is 2 things, #1. The pay is very close to top in the industry, hedgefunds/netflix pay usually more. #2. Getting to work on products/features that are used by millions and sometimes billions of users, not many companies can offer that to a candidate. I personally am hounded by their recruiters but will never work there due to moral objections about their leadership and their companies effect on society. That being said I am not judging people for working there, everyone has a free choice to make and some people may not have my convictions and there are many great people who do work there.

avree 5y ago
Yes, that is the point I was attempting to make. These people are talented enough to work anywhere, but could they make the same pay? Is it guaranteed they won't run into something as morally troubling to them, such as Microsoft/Google's partnerships with ICE and aggressive seeking of defensive contracts, for example?

CyanBird 5y ago

> Every major company has things they do that are bad I am sorry, but funding random shows that people might not like as Netflix does is quite below the "evilness" meter of setting up ways to target 6 year Olds..... The fact that you are even trying to equate these as being anywhere the same, at least in my eyes strongly strongly undermines your capacity to make moral judgments

ta20211004_1 5y ago
Google "Netflix Kids".
avree 5y ago
What level of moral outrage should cause someone to want to quit their job? Does Microsoft's repeated contracts with ICE count? Netflix's ads for content like "Cuties" showing children "twerking" and doing other sexual provocative poses (plus the current strikes from their trans employees and their handling of it)?