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One should presume that all chicken has dangerous bacterial infections since most of them do [1]. Cook all chicken to 170 no matter what. [1] https://advocacy.

One should presume that all chicken has dangerous bacterial infections since most of them do [1]. Cook all chicken to 170 no matter what. [1] https://advocacy.consumerreports.org/press_release/consumer-reports-finds-71-percent-of-store-bought-chicken-contains-harmful-bacteria/ https://advocacy.consumerreports.org/press_release/consumer-...

phonypc 5y ago
Overkill. Most health agencies recommend 165°, and that's already got a big margin of safety on it. I aim for 150° these days, and even that's mostly because I like the texture there. 140° is perfectly safe if you can hold it there for a while, like if you're doing sous vide.
- sharkweek 5y ago
  Second vote for sous vide for chicken, absolutely the juiciest chicken I’ve ever had. One warning to a first-timer though is if you’re used to baked or grilled chicken the texture of sous vide is going to feel undercooked. One or two bites though and you get used to it because of how good it is.
- Retric 5y ago
  The point of safety margins is the risk reward ratio is heavily weighted in one direction. 150 is flat out not worth the risk from a public health standpoint. Sous vide is nowhere near as safe as many assume. Many spores and some pathogens can survive the process and people with compromised immune systems should seriously avoid eating such food especially if it’s been refrigerated before consumption.
  - phonypc 5y ago
    >150 is flat out not worth the risk from a public health standpoint. It's not worth the risk for public health agencies to recommend 150°, that I can agree on. Too much room for inexperienced cooks to make an error. But chicken held at 150° for a few minutes (which is hard to avoid in most scenarios) is no less safe than the hypothetical "165° for an instant" scenario.
    - Retric 5y ago
      The problem is not just with the cook, how accurate is your equipment? +/- 4f is likely good enough at 165. +/- 4f at 150 or much worse 130 can be a serious issue. Now it’s not big deal what you do in your own kitchen, but people recommending such practices to a wide audience have real responsibility.
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    >150 is flat out not worth the risk from a public health standpoint. Im not sure what this means. What is the risk-reward being evaluated to see if it is worth it?
    - Retric 5y ago
      Higher quality meals on one side vs the risk of serious food born illnesses and death on the other.
      - s1artibartfast 5y ago
        I should have been a lot more specific in my comment. I'm not really convinced that this is a case for the application of that type of risk benefit analysis. Public health guidance should be (and is?) instructions for how to produce reliably safe food. Is shouldn't be (and isn't?) guidance for what the tradeoff should be between risk and pleasure. The latter is entirely subjective and up to individuals. This is why you can go out to a public restaurant and get chicken sashimi if you want.[1] https://duckduckgo.com/?q=chicken+sashimi&t=h_&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=chicken+sashimi&t=h_&ia=web
        fomine3 5y ago
        duckduckgo looks pretty legit domain to search chicken :D Chicken sashimi is almost (but not in law) prohibited (except limited area) by Japanese health center but it still served because of those restaurants are stupid. They constantly produce ill customer. To be fair, most restaurants won't serve raw chickens. Speaking about limited area, Kyushu produces very clean chickens that considered to very low risk to eat in raw (Torisashi). They are allowed by local health center.
        phonypc 5y ago
        >This is why you can go out to a public restaurant and get chicken sashimi if you want.[1] You actually can't do that, with very few exceptions.
        5y ago
- zionic 5y ago
  I use my pellet smoker @200F for an hour, then crank to 350F to "finish" them up to an internal 155F.
- tomjakubowski 5y ago
  Yep. The FDA recommended temperatures are very conservative and reflect something like the temperature at which almost all dangerous pathogens would be killed nearly instantaneously. Holding for a minute at 155F, or even 140F for a long while (easy to do with sous vide), has the same pasteurizing effect and is perfectly safe, while not totally ruining the texture† as cooking to 170F would do. Serious Eats has a great explanation. "Food safety is a function of both temperature and time." https://www.seriouseats.com/the-food-lab-complete-guide-to-sous-vide-chicken-breast#mntl-sc-block_1-0-17 https://www.seriouseats.com/the-food-lab-complete-guide-to-s... † (personally, I find 140F chicken breast a bit weird, though)
  - el_benhameen 5y ago
    Developing an understanding of the time/temp relationship in cooking and food safety really revolutionized the way that I think about cooking and safety. Instead of a fear-based binary cooked/raw framework, I can reason about how long I need to hold an ingredient and a particular temperature to obtain both the texture I want and the level of food safety I need. It's made me a lot more relaxed about cooking.
  - Scramblejams 5y ago
    Agreed, 140F chicken is weird. I did a bunch of test runs with my sous vide and my personal magic temp for chicken is 147F for an hour. Works great for dark and light meat.
  - jimmaswell 5y ago
    For me the chicken comes out chewy and spongy if I don't cook it to 170 or so. I started having a chicken breast for almost every meal recently and I had to keep increasing the cook time to find the right doneness, and at that doneness it will read 170 or even a lot more in spots. 425 for 32 minutes for one ~10oz breast for reference.
Larrikin 5y ago
Cooking chicken to 170 F is a good way to to be safe and also ensure nobody enjoys your chicken. There are various temperatures depending on the cut that are safe. If you can check your chicken to know that it is 170 then you have a thermometer to check it at other temperatures. If you have a sous vide machine you can go even lower, you just have to increase the time. https://www.seriouseats.com/the-food-lab-complete-guide-to-sous-vide-chicken-breast https://www.seriouseats.com/the-food-lab-complete-guide-to-s... https://www.seriouseats.com/how-to-take-meat-temperature-thermometer-cooking-doneness https://www.seriouseats.com/how-to-take-meat-temperature-the...
- powersnail 5y ago
  > also ensure nobody enjoys your chicken That's an overstatement. Plenty of dishes cooks chicken all the way to well-done and the result is still delicious. For instance, chicken adobo let the chicken sit in a simmering pot for nearly an hour, and it's absolutely delicious.
  - hypersoar 5y ago
    There's a big difference between cooking dark meat and white meat. Thighs and drumsticks can easily go higher and still be good, or even better. But breasts lack the fat and connective tissue that breaks down in longer cooks, so they're a lot less forgiving.
    - QuercusMax 5y ago
      Cooking thighs / legs to less than 185 generally results in poor texture.
      - Scramblejams 5y ago
        I'm happy with chicken thighs below that, but I pulled a turkey out at 165F internal temp once and it felt disturbingly underdone. Some of it was still pink. Safe, but not very enjoyable.
asiachick 5y ago
And yet here in Japan lots of restaurants serve raw chicken. It's very similar in taste and texture to certain types of raw fish.

phonypc 5y ago

Overkill. Most health agencies recommend 165°, and that's already got a big margin of safety on it. I aim for 150° these days, and even that's mostly because I like the texture there. 140° is perfectly safe if you can hold it there for a while, like if you're doing sous vide.

sharkweek 5y ago
Second vote for sous vide for chicken, absolutely the juiciest chicken I’ve ever had. One warning to a first-timer though is if you’re used to baked or grilled chicken the texture of sous vide is going to feel undercooked. One or two bites though and you get used to it because of how good it is.
Retric 5y ago
The point of safety margins is the risk reward ratio is heavily weighted in one direction. 150 is flat out not worth the risk from a public health standpoint. Sous vide is nowhere near as safe as many assume. Many spores and some pathogens can survive the process and people with compromised immune systems should seriously avoid eating such food especially if it’s been refrigerated before consumption.
- phonypc 5y ago
  >150 is flat out not worth the risk from a public health standpoint. It's not worth the risk for public health agencies to recommend 150°, that I can agree on. Too much room for inexperienced cooks to make an error. But chicken held at 150° for a few minutes (which is hard to avoid in most scenarios) is no less safe than the hypothetical "165° for an instant" scenario.
  - Retric 5y ago
    The problem is not just with the cook, how accurate is your equipment? +/- 4f is likely good enough at 165. +/- 4f at 150 or much worse 130 can be a serious issue. Now it’s not big deal what you do in your own kitchen, but people recommending such practices to a wide audience have real responsibility.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  >150 is flat out not worth the risk from a public health standpoint. Im not sure what this means. What is the risk-reward being evaluated to see if it is worth it?
  - Retric 5y ago
    Higher quality meals on one side vs the risk of serious food born illnesses and death on the other.
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      I should have been a lot more specific in my comment. I'm not really convinced that this is a case for the application of that type of risk benefit analysis. Public health guidance should be (and is?) instructions for how to produce reliably safe food. Is shouldn't be (and isn't?) guidance for what the tradeoff should be between risk and pleasure. The latter is entirely subjective and up to individuals. This is why you can go out to a public restaurant and get chicken sashimi if you want.[1] https://duckduckgo.com/?q=chicken+sashimi&t=h_&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=chicken+sashimi&t=h_&ia=web
      - fomine3 5y ago
        duckduckgo looks pretty legit domain to search chicken :D Chicken sashimi is almost (but not in law) prohibited (except limited area) by Japanese health center but it still served because of those restaurants are stupid. They constantly produce ill customer. To be fair, most restaurants won't serve raw chickens. Speaking about limited area, Kyushu produces very clean chickens that considered to very low risk to eat in raw (Torisashi). They are allowed by local health center.
      - phonypc 5y ago
        >This is why you can go out to a public restaurant and get chicken sashimi if you want.[1] You actually can't do that, with very few exceptions.
        5y ago
zionic 5y ago
I use my pellet smoker @200F for an hour, then crank to 350F to "finish" them up to an internal 155F.
tomjakubowski 5y ago
Yep. The FDA recommended temperatures are very conservative and reflect something like the temperature at which almost all dangerous pathogens would be killed nearly instantaneously. Holding for a minute at 155F, or even 140F for a long while (easy to do with sous vide), has the same pasteurizing effect and is perfectly safe, while not totally ruining the texture† as cooking to 170F would do. Serious Eats has a great explanation. "Food safety is a function of both temperature and time." https://www.seriouseats.com/the-food-lab-complete-guide-to-sous-vide-chicken-breast#mntl-sc-block_1-0-17 https://www.seriouseats.com/the-food-lab-complete-guide-to-s... † (personally, I find 140F chicken breast a bit weird, though)
- el_benhameen 5y ago
  Developing an understanding of the time/temp relationship in cooking and food safety really revolutionized the way that I think about cooking and safety. Instead of a fear-based binary cooked/raw framework, I can reason about how long I need to hold an ingredient and a particular temperature to obtain both the texture I want and the level of food safety I need. It's made me a lot more relaxed about cooking.
- Scramblejams 5y ago
  Agreed, 140F chicken is weird. I did a bunch of test runs with my sous vide and my personal magic temp for chicken is 147F for an hour. Works great for dark and light meat.
- jimmaswell 5y ago
  For me the chicken comes out chewy and spongy if I don't cook it to 170 or so. I started having a chicken breast for almost every meal recently and I had to keep increasing the cook time to find the right doneness, and at that doneness it will read 170 or even a lot more in spots. 425 for 32 minutes for one ~10oz breast for reference.

Larrikin 5y ago

Cooking chicken to 170 F is a good way to to be safe and also ensure nobody enjoys your chicken. There are various temperatures depending on the cut that are safe. If you can check your chicken to know that it is 170 then you have a thermometer to check it at other temperatures. If you have a sous vide machine you can go even lower, you just have to increase the time. https://www.seriouseats.com/the-food-lab-complete-guide-to-sous-vide-chicken-breast https://www.seriouseats.com/the-food-lab-complete-guide-to-s... https://www.seriouseats.com/how-to-take-meat-temperature-thermometer-cooking-doneness https://www.seriouseats.com/how-to-take-meat-temperature-the...

powersnail 5y ago
> also ensure nobody enjoys your chicken That's an overstatement. Plenty of dishes cooks chicken all the way to well-done and the result is still delicious. For instance, chicken adobo let the chicken sit in a simmering pot for nearly an hour, and it's absolutely delicious.
- hypersoar 5y ago
  There's a big difference between cooking dark meat and white meat. Thighs and drumsticks can easily go higher and still be good, or even better. But breasts lack the fat and connective tissue that breaks down in longer cooks, so they're a lot less forgiving.
  - QuercusMax 5y ago
    Cooking thighs / legs to less than 185 generally results in poor texture.
    - Scramblejams 5y ago
      I'm happy with chicken thighs below that, but I pulled a turkey out at 165F internal temp once and it felt disturbingly underdone. Some of it was still pink. Safe, but not very enjoyable.

asiachick 5y ago

And yet here in Japan lots of restaurants serve raw chicken. It's very similar in taste and texture to certain types of raw fish.