4 ms·

I am regularly surprised people have such a strong opinion on this topic. I personally enjoy that the sun only sets around 21:30 in the summer, and I like the c

by lqet 5y ago

I am regularly surprised people have such a strong opinion on this topic. I personally enjoy that the sun only sets around 21:30 in the summer, and I like the cozy early sunset in winter. I never had any problems with the one hour less sleep once a year, especially since it is easy to allow for a transition phase of around a week. I have 1 clock in the house which doesn't adjust automatically, so this can hardly be called a nuisance. More than once I didn't even notice the change until the evening - I just got up when my alarm went off. When the European Union conducted a poll 3 years ago, 4,6 million people answered. That is less than one percent (!) of the population, which is evidence that the overwhelming majority of people just don't care.

recursive 5y ago
I belong to an exclusive group that has needed to write software that calculates the time span between two (local) instants in time. And now, we can't just use GMT. The inputs we get are local time, by specification. I have strong opinions about DST. And even more fringe-y, I have opinions about time zones too.
lucasmullens 5y ago
> When the European Union conducted a poll 3 years ago, 4,6 million people answered. That is less than one percent (!) of the European population, which is evidence that the overwhelming majority of people just don't care. I'm sorry what? Unless 100% percent of the population was surveyed and 99% told pollsters they "don't care", that isn't evidence of anything. I care about lots of issues and I respond to almost no polls.
- lqet 5y ago
  This was a poll with extensive media coverage, and it was clear that the EU would use it to base a decision on. Polls were open for over 1 month. Clearly if less than 1% of the population would participate in a presidential election that would be evidence that the population just did not care about the outcome?
  - toomanybeersies 5y ago
    If it was a referendum or a plebiscite where only 1% of people actually voted, I'd agree, but a poll is hardly the same as an election.
  - xboxnolifes 5y ago
    Or they think the outcome of the poll is irrelevant. Not answering a poll is not equivalent to not caring about what a poll is about. I care quite a bit about certain policy decisions, but I don't answer any political polls since I think all of them are bunk or intentionally picking stats with poorly written questions.
- CSSer 5y ago
  > Unless 100% percent of the population was surveyed and 99% told pollsters they “don’t care”, that isn’t evidence of anything. Rigorous, reliable statistical analysis is possible without polling 100% of the population.
  - isolli 5y ago
    Sure, but it requires active polling, with tried and tested statistical techniques, not just posting a poll online and waiting to see who answers.
tremon 5y ago
which is evidence that [they] don't care No, it isn't. It is only evidence that 99% of Europeans did not vote in this poll. It says nothing about why they didn't vote. Or did you personally interview the remaining 455 million people and tallied their responses about why they didn't vote?
WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
> I never had any problems with the one hour less sleep once a year Many, many millions do.
throw0101a 5y ago
> I am regularly surprised people have such a strong opinion on this topic. Bikeshedding? * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality
riidom 5y ago
It was slightly annoying in the past, when you had to change all clocks in the house manually. But nowadays... for me it's one I have to change manually. Otherwise, loosing one hour of sleep during spring is not a problem at all. Gaining one in autumn feels like a net benefit. Skimming this thread, there can be said something about vocal minorities.
- krono 5y ago
  Cozy winter feelings, not having to deal with international scheduling, laying in bed enjoying your extra hour of sleep in the autumn, not worrying about your employees calling in sick with cluster migraines or seasonal depression. Sounds really good where do I sign up?
jkelleyrtp 5y ago
Seasonal Affective Disorder is pretty widespread. Having the sun set at 4:30 is depressing.
dboreham 5y ago
People who maintain calendar software can legitimately have strong opinions on this.
todorus 5y ago
Never heard about the poll, neither did anyone I know. So I wouldn't count that as evidence of anything
tinus_hn 5y ago
The most amusing part was the crybabies whining about how their pet issue didn’t get any attention this year because it coincides with an uptick of corona.
isolli 5y ago
The poll doesn't matter. In 2019, the European Parliament voted to end daylight saving time by 2021. This is democracy in action, people expressed themselves through their elected representatives.
rjmunro 5y ago
4.6 million people in a poll? That's a HUGE number. Note that the EU parliament actually did pass a law to abolish changing the clocks, but I think it didn't pass the other branches of EU government, so probably got lost. Hopefully it can be revived in future. The accuracy of a sample, as long as it's representative, doesn't depend that much on the population size, just on the size of the sample. Once you get past a few thousand samples you are accurate to a couple of percent no matter how big the population is. The question here is was the poll representative? That depends on how those 4.6 million people were selected.
- iggldiggl 5y ago
  Participation varied significantly by country – if I remember correctly, something like 2/3 of the responses came from Germany, even though pre-Brexit Germany only accounted for approximatively 1/6 of the EU population.

by lqet 5y ago

recursive 5y ago

I belong to an exclusive group that has needed to write software that calculates the time span between two (local) instants in time. And now, we can't just use GMT. The inputs we get are local time, by specification. I have strong opinions about DST. And even more fringe-y, I have opinions about time zones too.

lucasmullens 5y ago

> When the European Union conducted a poll 3 years ago, 4,6 million people answered. That is less than one percent (!) of the European population, which is evidence that the overwhelming majority of people just don't care. I'm sorry what? Unless 100% percent of the population was surveyed and 99% told pollsters they "don't care", that isn't evidence of anything. I care about lots of issues and I respond to almost no polls.

lqet 5y ago
This was a poll with extensive media coverage, and it was clear that the EU would use it to base a decision on. Polls were open for over 1 month. Clearly if less than 1% of the population would participate in a presidential election that would be evidence that the population just did not care about the outcome?
- toomanybeersies 5y ago
  If it was a referendum or a plebiscite where only 1% of people actually voted, I'd agree, but a poll is hardly the same as an election.
- xboxnolifes 5y ago
  Or they think the outcome of the poll is irrelevant. Not answering a poll is not equivalent to not caring about what a poll is about. I care quite a bit about certain policy decisions, but I don't answer any political polls since I think all of them are bunk or intentionally picking stats with poorly written questions.
CSSer 5y ago
> Unless 100% percent of the population was surveyed and 99% told pollsters they “don’t care”, that isn’t evidence of anything. Rigorous, reliable statistical analysis is possible without polling 100% of the population.
- isolli 5y ago
  Sure, but it requires active polling, with tried and tested statistical techniques, not just posting a poll online and waiting to see who answers.

tremon 5y ago

which is evidence that [they] don't care No, it isn't. It is only evidence that 99% of Europeans did not vote in this poll. It says nothing about why they didn't vote. Or did you personally interview the remaining 455 million people and tallied their responses about why they didn't vote?

WarOnPrivacy 5y ago

> I never had any problems with the one hour less sleep once a year Many, many millions do.

throw0101a 5y ago

> I am regularly surprised people have such a strong opinion on this topic. Bikeshedding? * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality

riidom 5y ago

It was slightly annoying in the past, when you had to change all clocks in the house manually. But nowadays... for me it's one I have to change manually. Otherwise, loosing one hour of sleep during spring is not a problem at all. Gaining one in autumn feels like a net benefit. Skimming this thread, there can be said something about vocal minorities.

krono 5y ago
Cozy winter feelings, not having to deal with international scheduling, laying in bed enjoying your extra hour of sleep in the autumn, not worrying about your employees calling in sick with cluster migraines or seasonal depression. Sounds really good where do I sign up?

jkelleyrtp 5y ago

Seasonal Affective Disorder is pretty widespread. Having the sun set at 4:30 is depressing.

dboreham 5y ago

People who maintain calendar software can legitimately have strong opinions on this.

todorus 5y ago

Never heard about the poll, neither did anyone I know. So I wouldn't count that as evidence of anything

tinus_hn 5y ago

The most amusing part was the crybabies whining about how their pet issue didn’t get any attention this year because it coincides with an uptick of corona.

isolli 5y ago

The poll doesn't matter. In 2019, the European Parliament voted to end daylight saving time by 2021. This is democracy in action, people expressed themselves through their elected representatives.

rjmunro 5y ago

4.6 million people in a poll? That's a HUGE number. Note that the EU parliament actually did pass a law to abolish changing the clocks, but I think it didn't pass the other branches of EU government, so probably got lost. Hopefully it can be revived in future. The accuracy of a sample, as long as it's representative, doesn't depend that much on the population size, just on the size of the sample. Once you get past a few thousand samples you are accurate to a couple of percent no matter how big the population is. The question here is was the poll representative? That depends on how those 4.6 million people were selected.

iggldiggl 5y ago
Participation varied significantly by country – if I remember correctly, something like 2/3 of the responses came from Germany, even though pre-Brexit Germany only accounted for approximatively 1/6 of the EU population.