5 ms·

I had no idea there were that many salmonella infections in the US every year. Could irradiation be a solution? I know it is sometimes used on fruits and vegeta

I had no idea there were that many salmonella infections in the US every year. Could irradiation be a solution? I know it is sometimes used on fruits and vegetables (wish it was used more, tbh).

coob 5y ago
In the US, chickens are washed in a chlorine solution. This is not allowed in UK/EU, as it's believed it's better to fix the problem at source and that no-one will bother to do that if there's end-bleaching.
- hammock 5y ago
  Is this why chicken should be rinsed, to remove the chlorine?
  - gruez 5y ago
    You shouldn't rinse chicken, period. https://www.usda.gov/media/press-releases/2019/08/20/washing-raw-poultry-our-science-your-choice https://www.usda.gov/media/press-releases/2019/08/20/washing... also, AFAIK people rinse off meat to "get rid of the blood/slime", not to get rid of the chroline smell. Presumably they do a good enough job rinsing off the chlorine that it doesn't smell like pool water by the time it hits store shelves.
    - azinman2 5y ago
      According to that linked article, it’s because ppl believe it’ll “clean” the raw chicken making it safer (which seems insane to me unless you’re using soap.. which would be a weird thing to do with meat). As long as you continue treating everything as if it’s still lined with bacteria, why not wash?
      - hammock 5y ago
        >As long as you continue treating everything as if it’s still lined with bacteria, why not wash? Exactly. I'm not a least-common-denominator that these public health recommendations cater to. Give me the real info please. I am skeptical that they would rinse the chlorine off of the chicken at the factory. That seems like an extra step adding not only cost but risk of a bacterial bloom occurring between the factory and the store/home.
  - rsynnott 5y ago
    Chicken shouldn't be rinsed; it's a weirdly persistent myth, not actual safety advice. I live in a non-chlorinated-poultry country, and there are still dept of health ads every Christmas warning people not to attempt to rinse turkeys; wherever the idea came from it probably wasn't chlorination.
    - hammock 5y ago
      The warning not to rinse turkeys is probably because you don't want a wet bird to go into a deep fryer, that is how explosions happen. I would not expect a health agency, which requires processors to use a chlorine rinse that presumably the agency approves as "safe and healthy", to say that your chicken should be rinsed of any excess chlorine before cooking. They think the amount of chlorine is safe and want you to believe so as well. And I know people rinse chicken for reasons other than what I am suggesting. However I am still looking for a good answer to whether there is chlorine residue on chicken that can be removed by rinsing in the home. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough at first.
      - cyberpunk 5y ago
        Woah hang-on there. People deep fry christmas turkeys? Eeek.
        rootusrootus 5y ago
        It's pretty tasty. I just did one for the first time a couple weeks ago (as a test so I'd understand the process and timing a little better before Thanksgiving). I don't know if it's necessarily that much better than a good oven roasting, but I did a 14 pound turkey in 45 minutes.
        QuercusMax 5y ago
        It's not as bizarre as it sounds. They're not breaded, simply dinked into hot oil and deep-fried for half an hour or so. If you're not an idiot and follow basic precautions it's a pretty reasonable way to do things, as it's much quicker than roasting for multiple hours. Basic precautions include: * Do it outside away from structures * Keep a fire extinguisher handy * Make sure there's no ice in the bird * Measure the displacement of the bird (by filling your pot with water), and add the appropriate amount of oil * Heat the oil up to 250, then add the bird. Don't let the temp get over 350. I have a propane stove I use for making beer; it's often sold as a turkey fryer stove
- EliRivers 5y ago
  Don't you worry about that, BoJo is on the case. He'll get the UK onto chlorine washed chicken soon enough!
  - CodeGlitch 5y ago
    Citation needed
- rsynnott 5y ago
  > as it's believed it's better to fix the problem at source Well, there are two other problems: - There's rather limited evidence that the chlorine thing is particularly effective for removing surface bacteria. - Chicken meat can and commonly does harbour bacteria in the interior.
ssklash 5y ago
Take a look at how chickens/farmed animals in general are housed before before being "processed". Turns out it's cheaper to pump the animals full of antibiotics and wash the resulting meat with chemicals afterwards than to house them in clean and sanitary conditions. The EU/UK at least recognize how terrible this is, so they don't allow US meat that is handled this way.
- joelthelion 5y ago
  Do we actually have fewer infections in Europe?
  - ane 5y ago
    Yes, considerably. > ”In the EU, over 91,000 salmonellosis cases are reported each year” https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/topics/topic/salmonella https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/topics/topic/salmonella And in the US, from the article: > ” Salmonella hospitalizes and kills more people in the U.S. than any other foodborne pathogen, with about 1.35 million illnesses, 26,500 hospitalizations and more than 400 deaths each year.” US population is 330 million, EU is about 450 million. The difference in salmonellosis prevalence is huge.
  - blippe 5y ago
    The rate of infections are very diverse in Europe. In Scandinavia it is extremely low, they test the chickens several times during their lifetime and kills the whole flock if any of them is contaminated. Until they joined the EU all eggs were "washed" which removed other unwanted pathogens. The EU forced them to accept unwashed eggs and allowed them for the time being to continue selling washed eggs. Most other countries does not use such draconian methods to their farming and the washing of eggs removes a thin membrane which gives some protection from salmonella travelling between the eggs.
- abfan1127 5y ago
  chickens are not allowed antibiotics by law. That's the funny part of "our chicken is raised without antibiotics" advertising.
imglorp 5y ago
Good idea. Unfortunately it would need a better name because people panic hearing the R word, perhaps Green Washed (tm) for your protection [washed in gamma rays, that is]. On a related note, there may also be a huge issue with Prion diseases in the food supply but the USDA is not testing extensively for it. We just don't know and it has a decades-long incubation period. Irradiation may not be an option.
- tata71 5y ago
  Uh. Is this real?
  - imglorp 5y ago
    https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/animalhealth/nvap/NVAP-Reference-Guide/Control-and-Eradication/Bovine-Spongiform-Encephalopathy https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/animalhealth/nvap/...
- eneumann 5y ago
  Are prions linked to irradiated food? They are terrifying but I know very little about them.
  - imglorp 5y ago
    I only mentioned prions/BSE because the USDA is tasked with testing meat for safety, but their mission in practice tends to lean towards protection of producers and not consumers. There has been some controversy over how much to test and when. I was looking for evidence that irradiation can neutralize prions (along with viruses and bacteria), not cause them.
notJim 5y ago
There is a vaccine for salmonella. I might be wrong, but I believe it is mandated in other countries, but not in the US. Notably, California requires it for chickens that lay eggs, which means most eggs on the West Coast are vaccinated against salmonella.

I had no idea there were that many salmonella infections in the US every year. Could irradiation be a solution? I know it is sometimes used on fruits and vegetables (wish it was used more, tbh).

coob 5y ago

In the US, chickens are washed in a chlorine solution. This is not allowed in UK/EU, as it's believed it's better to fix the problem at source and that no-one will bother to do that if there's end-bleaching.

hammock 5y ago
Is this why chicken should be rinsed, to remove the chlorine?
- gruez 5y ago
  You shouldn't rinse chicken, period. https://www.usda.gov/media/press-releases/2019/08/20/washing-raw-poultry-our-science-your-choice https://www.usda.gov/media/press-releases/2019/08/20/washing... also, AFAIK people rinse off meat to "get rid of the blood/slime", not to get rid of the chroline smell. Presumably they do a good enough job rinsing off the chlorine that it doesn't smell like pool water by the time it hits store shelves.
  - azinman2 5y ago
    According to that linked article, it’s because ppl believe it’ll “clean” the raw chicken making it safer (which seems insane to me unless you’re using soap.. which would be a weird thing to do with meat). As long as you continue treating everything as if it’s still lined with bacteria, why not wash?
    - hammock 5y ago
      >As long as you continue treating everything as if it’s still lined with bacteria, why not wash? Exactly. I'm not a least-common-denominator that these public health recommendations cater to. Give me the real info please. I am skeptical that they would rinse the chlorine off of the chicken at the factory. That seems like an extra step adding not only cost but risk of a bacterial bloom occurring between the factory and the store/home.
- rsynnott 5y ago
  Chicken shouldn't be rinsed; it's a weirdly persistent myth, not actual safety advice. I live in a non-chlorinated-poultry country, and there are still dept of health ads every Christmas warning people not to attempt to rinse turkeys; wherever the idea came from it probably wasn't chlorination.
  - hammock 5y ago
    The warning not to rinse turkeys is probably because you don't want a wet bird to go into a deep fryer, that is how explosions happen. I would not expect a health agency, which requires processors to use a chlorine rinse that presumably the agency approves as "safe and healthy", to say that your chicken should be rinsed of any excess chlorine before cooking. They think the amount of chlorine is safe and want you to believe so as well. And I know people rinse chicken for reasons other than what I am suggesting. However I am still looking for a good answer to whether there is chlorine residue on chicken that can be removed by rinsing in the home. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough at first.
    - cyberpunk 5y ago
      Woah hang-on there. People deep fry christmas turkeys? Eeek.
      - rootusrootus 5y ago
        It's pretty tasty. I just did one for the first time a couple weeks ago (as a test so I'd understand the process and timing a little better before Thanksgiving). I don't know if it's necessarily that much better than a good oven roasting, but I did a 14 pound turkey in 45 minutes.
      - QuercusMax 5y ago
        It's not as bizarre as it sounds. They're not breaded, simply dinked into hot oil and deep-fried for half an hour or so. If you're not an idiot and follow basic precautions it's a pretty reasonable way to do things, as it's much quicker than roasting for multiple hours. Basic precautions include: * Do it outside away from structures * Keep a fire extinguisher handy * Make sure there's no ice in the bird * Measure the displacement of the bird (by filling your pot with water), and add the appropriate amount of oil * Heat the oil up to 250, then add the bird. Don't let the temp get over 350. I have a propane stove I use for making beer; it's often sold as a turkey fryer stove
EliRivers 5y ago
Don't you worry about that, BoJo is on the case. He'll get the UK onto chlorine washed chicken soon enough!
- CodeGlitch 5y ago
  Citation needed
rsynnott 5y ago
> as it's believed it's better to fix the problem at source Well, there are two other problems: - There's rather limited evidence that the chlorine thing is particularly effective for removing surface bacteria. - Chicken meat can and commonly does harbour bacteria in the interior.

ssklash 5y ago

Take a look at how chickens/farmed animals in general are housed before before being "processed". Turns out it's cheaper to pump the animals full of antibiotics and wash the resulting meat with chemicals afterwards than to house them in clean and sanitary conditions. The EU/UK at least recognize how terrible this is, so they don't allow US meat that is handled this way.

joelthelion 5y ago
Do we actually have fewer infections in Europe?
- ane 5y ago
  Yes, considerably. > ”In the EU, over 91,000 salmonellosis cases are reported each year” https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/topics/topic/salmonella https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/topics/topic/salmonella And in the US, from the article: > ” Salmonella hospitalizes and kills more people in the U.S. than any other foodborne pathogen, with about 1.35 million illnesses, 26,500 hospitalizations and more than 400 deaths each year.” US population is 330 million, EU is about 450 million. The difference in salmonellosis prevalence is huge.
- blippe 5y ago
  The rate of infections are very diverse in Europe. In Scandinavia it is extremely low, they test the chickens several times during their lifetime and kills the whole flock if any of them is contaminated. Until they joined the EU all eggs were "washed" which removed other unwanted pathogens. The EU forced them to accept unwashed eggs and allowed them for the time being to continue selling washed eggs. Most other countries does not use such draconian methods to their farming and the washing of eggs removes a thin membrane which gives some protection from salmonella travelling between the eggs.
abfan1127 5y ago
chickens are not allowed antibiotics by law. That's the funny part of "our chicken is raised without antibiotics" advertising.

imglorp 5y ago

Good idea. Unfortunately it would need a better name because people panic hearing the R word, perhaps Green Washed (tm) for your protection [washed in gamma rays, that is]. On a related note, there may also be a huge issue with Prion diseases in the food supply but the USDA is not testing extensively for it. We just don't know and it has a decades-long incubation period. Irradiation may not be an option.

tata71 5y ago
Uh. Is this real?
- imglorp 5y ago
  https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/animalhealth/nvap/NVAP-Reference-Guide/Control-and-Eradication/Bovine-Spongiform-Encephalopathy https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/animalhealth/nvap/...
eneumann 5y ago
Are prions linked to irradiated food? They are terrifying but I know very little about them.
- imglorp 5y ago
  I only mentioned prions/BSE because the USDA is tasked with testing meat for safety, but their mission in practice tends to lean towards protection of producers and not consumers. There has been some controversy over how much to test and when. I was looking for evidence that irradiation can neutralize prions (along with viruses and bacteria), not cause them.

notJim 5y ago

There is a vaccine for salmonella. I might be wrong, but I believe it is mandated in other countries, but not in the US. Notably, California requires it for chickens that lay eggs, which means most eggs on the West Coast are vaccinated against salmonella.