5 ms·
Aren't there usually provisions to override requiring all party consent, if it becomes reasonably necessary as criminal (not civil) evidence or for your own leg
by ninjinxo 5y ago
Aren't there usually provisions to override requiring all party consent, if it becomes reasonably necessary as criminal (not civil) evidence or for your own legal/physical protection?
Edit: I looked into it, nope, Florida is utterly insane - a child didn't get consent to record their rapist soliciting/threatening them, so the evidence was denied;
On December 11, 2014, the Florida Supreme Court held in McDade v. State, 154 So. 3d 292 (Fla. 2014), that a defendant accused of child molestation has an expectation of privacy in conversations between him and his victim taking place in their shared residence where he asked her to have sex with him and also alluded to his prior acts of sexual abuse.
...
the court concluded that the Secrecy of Communications Act’s (SCA), F.S. Ch. 934, et seq. (2014), plain language barred the trial court’s admission of a recorded conversation between McDade and his victim into evidence. The decision may surprise some, especially when one considers that the victim’s actions in McDade also constituted a crime under the SCA and authorized the criminal defendant in that case to sue the victim under the statute’s civil cause of action
https://www.floridabar.org/the-florida-bar-journal/mcdade-v-state-a-clarion-call-for-an-exception-to-floridas-secrecy-of-communications-act/ https://www.floridabar.org/the-florida-bar-journal/mcdade-v-...
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-district-court-of-appeal/1633785.html https://caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-district-court-of-appeal/1633...
https://law.justia.com/cases/florida/supreme-court/2014/sc13-1248.html https://law.justia.com/cases/florida/supreme-court/2014/sc13...
They have since made a exclusion for this scenario, allowing children to record talking to their abusers.
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2015/7001 https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2015/7001
- R0b0t1 5y agoYou should still record anyway. Use it in the court of public opinion.
- Loughla 5y agoExcept if the recording is illegal, it can be used, in some states, against you criminally and civilly. I was just having this conversation. You can be sued and/or jailed if you record someone without their consent in a two party consent state. Not saying it's right or wrong, but it exists and is something to think about.
- xyzzy21 5y agoAgain, sure technically, but it also Streisands everything about it. The cost-benefit for prosecutors and the other party isn't a slam dunk! Personally I'd absolutely do it and take the gamble. But I'm risk-thriving (hence started several companies, enjoy international travel, etc.)
- osense 5y agoGreat, so instead of being able to count on the justice system we're basicall back to mob justice?
- mcguire 5y agoWe like to think of it as democracy in action.
- UnpossibleJim 5y agoSo the Salem witch trials were "democracy in action"?
- Retric 5y agoYep. Democracy isn’t perfect it’s just one compromise among many.
- UnpossibleJim 5y agoSo better that more innocents be punished than risk any guilty going free? Truly, your love of the strictest "definition" of democracy is baffling, though I think most would vote against you.
- mcguire 5y agoI'm not sure how you get "punishing innocents" from publishing a very incriminating recording even though making such a recording is illegal.
- UnpossibleJim 5y agohttps://youtu.be/lSM-9RBk3HQ https://youtu.be/lSM-9RBk3HQ Or just make a deepfake of anyone you want saying anything you want and try them in the court of public opinion. Mob justice is a poor form of investigation.
- R0b0t1 5y agoCourts in the US often do nothing, so mob justice is all you have. This is a separate issue that will need to be addressed. It will soon be possible to claim any video or audio evidence is faked. I don't know what happens then, but building off of what happens now, each piece of evidence is just weighting the scales one direction.
- UnpossibleJim 5y agoWe have more options than mob justice. Who told you that, that was our only option? Once you resort to mib justice, their verdicts can't just be "taken back". I'll give you a link to Emmett Till, and that's what mob justice brings. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till
- R0b0t1 5y agoI live in the US. Courts in the US are often useless. If you have a high profile case you might get justice but usually nothing happens. I'm definitely aware of what can happen. I don't know how often it does. But if you restrict yourself to forcing justice only when you aren't acting on a hunch you're probably doing the best for yourself you can, because the alternative is usually nothing.
- UnpossibleJim 5y agoI live in the US as well and you're arguing for a medieval form of justice. You think we should go back to conviction on a "hunch" and feelings. Have we fallen so far that I have to argue for the merits of a justice system based on evidence in a technical forum? Education and critical thought should be inextricably linked.
- brightball 5y agoIsn’t California’s version this what was used in the Planned Parenthood recordings? https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/03/29/521919322/2-activists-who-secretly-recorded-planned-parenthood-face-new-felony-charges https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/03/29/521919322...