5 ms·

I mean, I have needed ID to vote for 30 years. I don't understand the objection to making some effort to verify that the person presenting himself as J. Random

I mean, I have needed ID to vote for 30 years. I don't understand the objection to making some effort to verify that the person presenting himself as J. Random Voter is actually who he says he is.

ceejayoz 5y ago
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a... > For Settles to get one of those, his name has to match his birth certificate — and it doesn’t. In 1964, when he was 14, his mother married and changed his last name. After Texas passed a new voter-ID law, officials told Settles he had to show them his name-change certificate from 1964 to qualify for a new identification card to vote. > So with the help of several lawyers, Settles tried to find it, searching records in courthouses in the D.C. area, where he grew up. But they could not find it. To obtain a new document changing his name to the one he has used for 51 years, Settles has to go to court, a process that would cost him more than $250 — more than he is willing to pay. That's a pretty clear illegal poll tax, if you ask me.
- singlow 5y ago
  Can he not vote using the name the State does recognize?
  - notreallyserio 5y ago
    Wouldn’t that be fraud under voter ID law, providing a false name?
    - singlow 5y ago
      How would it be fraud if the name is his, legally?
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    The article is pretty clear on that point. > What he does not have is the one thing that he needs to vote this presidential election: a current Texas photo ID. He can't get one without the proper documents, which he can't obtain. Texas's list of requirements is at https://www.dps.texas.gov/internetforms/Forms/DL-15.pdf https://www.dps.texas.gov/internetforms/Forms/DL-15.pdf; he'll need proof of residence, which is likely all under the name he's been using for half a century.
- isoskeles 5y ago
  Pretty clear not an illegal poll tax since this man is an edge case who uses a name with no proof. It’s sad that this is ultimately his mother’s fault, and he can’t ask her for the $250 to fix this.
  - _jal 5y ago
    Always nice to see people willing to write off other peoples' disenfranchisement as a rounding error or 'worth it' (whatever 'it' is.) That is exactly the attitude the authoritarians are counting on. This is how you lose your own representation.
    - isoskeles 5y ago
      Thank you for scare quotes around something I never said. What will you accuse me of next? I don't think any of this is "worth it," I just don't agree with coming up with sob stories as a counterexample. It's not that hard to hold onto important government documents like your birth certificate, social security card, etc. The argument against disenfranchisement shouldn't look like such a clear edge case. If anything, I think there's a case to be made that the government shouldn't be using paper documents handed to potentially irresponsible parents to verify identity, and then holding someone responsible for their parents' fuck-ups. But the jump from such an argument to saying we shouldn't verify voter identity at all is an absurd one.
      - _jal 5y ago
        Wait, are they scare quotes, or am I quoting you? The fact that you can't decide makes me think you know I wasn't quoting you, which was contextually obvious. I find the rest of your argument equally sincere and convincing.
        deleted 5y ago
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        deleted 5y ago
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Miner49er 5y ago
Why make voting harder and more expensive then it already is?
- andrew_ 5y ago
  Apologies for replying to your question with a question. What is hard and expensive about voting today? I'm interested in your experiences on the topic, as I've personally not had a voting experience that was hard or expensive. For what it's worth, I'm considered a minority in the U.S.
  - cmh89 5y ago
    It depends on where you are. In my state (Oregon), voting is easy and secure. We vote by mail as a default and if you move and don't get your ballot, you can go to any voting office and request all the way up until when polls close on election day. Now, if you are in republican held states like Alabama or Georgia, it's going to be a different story. republicans use several methods to disenfranchise voters, voter ID is just one of them. 1. republicans always aim to have the shortest polling hours possible. This benefits them because their base tends to be older and more time/ability to vote during the day. Working-class voters are especially impacted by this because if they can even get time off during the day, they probably will have to pay for the privilege of voting in the form of sacrificing hours at work and getting a reduced paycheck. 2. The second thing republicans do is close polling stations in areas they don't expect a lot of support. This creates massive wait times for folks who are more likely to vote Democrat. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/smartphone-data-show-voters-in-black-neighborhoods-wait-longer1/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/smartphone-data-s... Those hourly workers who are already sacrificing money to vote have to take even more time off to cast their ballot. 3. Another tactic is voter roll purges. A lot of folks don't know that they've been unenrolled from the voter rolls till they show up on election day. This particularly effects renters who might not realize they aren't registered at their current address, and miss mail regarding it because its sent to their former address. 4. republicans will also just shamelessly attempt to discourage Democratic turnout. For example, Georgia got rid of voting early Sunday morning to put a damper on the 'Souls to Polls' movement. There is no rationalization for this. They didn't even bother to lie about it. They just wanted to squash a successful Black get-out-the-vote initiative.

I mean, I have needed ID to vote for 30 years. I don't understand the objection to making some effort to verify that the person presenting himself as J. Random Voter is actually who he says he is.

ceejayoz 5y ago

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a... > For Settles to get one of those, his name has to match his birth certificate — and it doesn’t. In 1964, when he was 14, his mother married and changed his last name. After Texas passed a new voter-ID law, officials told Settles he had to show them his name-change certificate from 1964 to qualify for a new identification card to vote. > So with the help of several lawyers, Settles tried to find it, searching records in courthouses in the D.C. area, where he grew up. But they could not find it. To obtain a new document changing his name to the one he has used for 51 years, Settles has to go to court, a process that would cost him more than $250 — more than he is willing to pay. That's a pretty clear illegal poll tax, if you ask me.

singlow 5y ago
Can he not vote using the name the State does recognize?
- notreallyserio 5y ago
  Wouldn’t that be fraud under voter ID law, providing a false name?
  - singlow 5y ago
    How would it be fraud if the name is his, legally?
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  The article is pretty clear on that point. > What he does not have is the one thing that he needs to vote this presidential election: a current Texas photo ID. He can't get one without the proper documents, which he can't obtain. Texas's list of requirements is at https://www.dps.texas.gov/internetforms/Forms/DL-15.pdf https://www.dps.texas.gov/internetforms/Forms/DL-15.pdf; he'll need proof of residence, which is likely all under the name he's been using for half a century.
isoskeles 5y ago
Pretty clear not an illegal poll tax since this man is an edge case who uses a name with no proof. It’s sad that this is ultimately his mother’s fault, and he can’t ask her for the $250 to fix this.
- _jal 5y ago
  Always nice to see people willing to write off other peoples' disenfranchisement as a rounding error or 'worth it' (whatever 'it' is.) That is exactly the attitude the authoritarians are counting on. This is how you lose your own representation.
  - isoskeles 5y ago
    Thank you for scare quotes around something I never said. What will you accuse me of next? I don't think any of this is "worth it," I just don't agree with coming up with sob stories as a counterexample. It's not that hard to hold onto important government documents like your birth certificate, social security card, etc. The argument against disenfranchisement shouldn't look like such a clear edge case. If anything, I think there's a case to be made that the government shouldn't be using paper documents handed to potentially irresponsible parents to verify identity, and then holding someone responsible for their parents' fuck-ups. But the jump from such an argument to saying we shouldn't verify voter identity at all is an absurd one.
    - _jal 5y ago
      Wait, are they scare quotes, or am I quoting you? The fact that you can't decide makes me think you know I wasn't quoting you, which was contextually obvious. I find the rest of your argument equally sincere and convincing.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]

Miner49er 5y ago

Why make voting harder and more expensive then it already is?

andrew_ 5y ago
Apologies for replying to your question with a question. What is hard and expensive about voting today? I'm interested in your experiences on the topic, as I've personally not had a voting experience that was hard or expensive. For what it's worth, I'm considered a minority in the U.S.
- cmh89 5y ago
  It depends on where you are. In my state (Oregon), voting is easy and secure. We vote by mail as a default and if you move and don't get your ballot, you can go to any voting office and request all the way up until when polls close on election day. Now, if you are in republican held states like Alabama or Georgia, it's going to be a different story. republicans use several methods to disenfranchise voters, voter ID is just one of them. 1. republicans always aim to have the shortest polling hours possible. This benefits them because their base tends to be older and more time/ability to vote during the day. Working-class voters are especially impacted by this because if they can even get time off during the day, they probably will have to pay for the privilege of voting in the form of sacrificing hours at work and getting a reduced paycheck. 2. The second thing republicans do is close polling stations in areas they don't expect a lot of support. This creates massive wait times for folks who are more likely to vote Democrat. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/smartphone-data-show-voters-in-black-neighborhoods-wait-longer1/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/smartphone-data-s... Those hourly workers who are already sacrificing money to vote have to take even more time off to cast their ballot. 3. Another tactic is voter roll purges. A lot of folks don't know that they've been unenrolled from the voter rolls till they show up on election day. This particularly effects renters who might not realize they aren't registered at their current address, and miss mail regarding it because its sent to their former address. 4. republicans will also just shamelessly attempt to discourage Democratic turnout. For example, Georgia got rid of voting early Sunday morning to put a damper on the 'Souls to Polls' movement. There is no rationalization for this. They didn't even bother to lie about it. They just wanted to squash a successful Black get-out-the-vote initiative.