5 ms·

Ask HN: Why most developers are not contributing to BSD systems?

7 points by jayp1418 5y ago

BSDs are really great operating systems but why less developers are interested in them despite them being very modular and easily customizable?

WalterGR 5y ago
BSDs lost mindshare due to AT&T's litigation about the intellectual property of Unix. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_System_Laboratories,_Inc._v._Berkeley_Software_Design,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_System_Laboratories,_Inc..... Linux filled in the gap left by the litigation. I don't know how "cathedral-like" the development of the BSDs is / was (vs. the "bazaar" of Linux.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cathedral_and_the_Bazaar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cathedral_and_the_Bazaar may have some relevance.
- jayp1418 5y ago
  BSD development is not cathedral but more POSIX and technical but agree to point of Linux being Bazaar or business focus have got more attention
- the_only_law 5y ago
  Are there any actual UNIX’s still out there and maintained. I know OSX is technically certified, and AIX still probably has support. I’m not sure if HP-UX died with PA-RISC or if it ever found it’s way to today’s common architectures.
  - floxy 5y ago
    Solaris?
    - the_only_law 5y ago
      Ah I figured I’d forget one.
PaulHoule 5y ago
I got into the Linux habit in 1993. From time to time I tried installing some kind of BSD. Occasionally the install worked, but frequently it didn't. (The same has been true about Red Hat Linux since 2005 or so) It's not clear to me why I should switch away from Linux. The switching cost is real, but the benefits are obscure if they exist at all.
- jayp1418 5y ago
  I understand your pain from user perspective. What i meant is if more hardware developers or contributors were happening to BSDs then you might have choosen BSDs over Linux.
  - PaulHoule 5y ago
    ... but the "users" also attract the "developers". There's not just the question of removing obstacles (missing drivers) but also the question of what real advantages of a particular x-BSD. Is it just that people don't like the GPL or is there some concrete reason I'm going to have a better experience with an x-BSD?
the_only_law 5y ago
I’ve used a number of BSDs and it always comes down to hardware/software support. FreeBSD only recently got 802.11ac support and iirc it’s limited to certain Intel chipsets. I’ve had issues will all sorts of hardware on NetBSD from NICs to eMMC storage and DragonflyBSD just seems to lag behind FreeBSD (the main developer is a really nice guy though). I haven’t done much with OpenBSD, because some of its features are off putting too me. I did actually make a very minor contribution to the FreeBSD kernel some years ago to get a NIC working, but most issues I’ve had were much more involved. I know that there’s some emulation for Linux software, I haven’t tried to myself, so I cant speak too much on it. I do like the ports system. I was able to get CDE running on FreeBSD trivially, which I cannot say for Linux.
- jayp1418 5y ago
  That's exactly i am thinking if more people contribute to Hardware firmware support it will run on most hardwares Linux does.

7 points by jayp1418 5y ago

BSDs are really great operating systems but why less developers are interested in them despite them being very modular and easily customizable?

WalterGR 5y ago

BSDs lost mindshare due to AT&T's litigation about the intellectual property of Unix. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_System_Laboratories,_Inc._v._Berkeley_Software_Design,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_System_Laboratories,_Inc..... Linux filled in the gap left by the litigation. I don't know how "cathedral-like" the development of the BSDs is / was (vs. the "bazaar" of Linux.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cathedral_and_the_Bazaar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cathedral_and_the_Bazaar may have some relevance.

jayp1418 5y ago
BSD development is not cathedral but more POSIX and technical but agree to point of Linux being Bazaar or business focus have got more attention
the_only_law 5y ago
Are there any actual UNIX’s still out there and maintained. I know OSX is technically certified, and AIX still probably has support. I’m not sure if HP-UX died with PA-RISC or if it ever found it’s way to today’s common architectures.
- floxy 5y ago
  Solaris?
  - the_only_law 5y ago
    Ah I figured I’d forget one.

PaulHoule 5y ago

I got into the Linux habit in 1993. From time to time I tried installing some kind of BSD. Occasionally the install worked, but frequently it didn't. (The same has been true about Red Hat Linux since 2005 or so) It's not clear to me why I should switch away from Linux. The switching cost is real, but the benefits are obscure if they exist at all.

jayp1418 5y ago
I understand your pain from user perspective. What i meant is if more hardware developers or contributors were happening to BSDs then you might have choosen BSDs over Linux.
- PaulHoule 5y ago
  ... but the "users" also attract the "developers". There's not just the question of removing obstacles (missing drivers) but also the question of what real advantages of a particular x-BSD. Is it just that people don't like the GPL or is there some concrete reason I'm going to have a better experience with an x-BSD?

the_only_law 5y ago

I’ve used a number of BSDs and it always comes down to hardware/software support. FreeBSD only recently got 802.11ac support and iirc it’s limited to certain Intel chipsets. I’ve had issues will all sorts of hardware on NetBSD from NICs to eMMC storage and DragonflyBSD just seems to lag behind FreeBSD (the main developer is a really nice guy though). I haven’t done much with OpenBSD, because some of its features are off putting too me. I did actually make a very minor contribution to the FreeBSD kernel some years ago to get a NIC working, but most issues I’ve had were much more involved. I know that there’s some emulation for Linux software, I haven’t tried to myself, so I cant speak too much on it. I do like the ports system. I was able to get CDE running on FreeBSD trivially, which I cannot say for Linux.

jayp1418 5y ago
That's exactly i am thinking if more people contribute to Hardware firmware support it will run on most hardwares Linux does.