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I'm Canadian. The reason the press focusses on it so much is that it is, thus far, the only real step that the west is taking against Chinese hegemony. It's ex

I'm Canadian. The reason the press focusses on it so much is that it is, thus far, the only real step that the west is taking against Chinese hegemony. It's expensive and it's real. The rest of Cold War 2.0 hasn't really started yet. A couple of Mikes, a couple of tariffs, sure, but realistically if we really snap into a true standoff with China it's going to absolutely devastate the world's total economic output and stability.

throwaway21_ 5y ago
That's interesting - talking about Chinese hegemony and ignoring 750 US bases worldwide and all the misery they brought all around the world - South America, SE Asia, Middle East...
- echlebek 5y ago
  Whataboutism. Canada has little to fear from US hegemony and a lot to fear from Chinese hegemony, it's as simple as that.
  - throwaway21_ 5y ago
    Nobody cares what Canada fears or not. Simple fact is that there's no Chinese hegemony now and there won't be one in foreseeable future because there's existing hegemon that won't just give up. btw one man's whataboutism is another man's uncovering of hypocrisy.
    - tick_tock_tick 5y ago
      > btw one man's whataboutism is another man's uncovering of hypocrisy. They didn't say anything about the USA hegemony being bad just that they didn't want a Chinese one. How is that hypocrisy?
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > and ignoring 750 US bases worldwide and all the misery they brought all around the world The alternative being Russian (or rather, USSR) bases. Yeah, pretty sure citizens of the countries with bases would rather have the US as a partner rather than the alternative.
- tick_tock_tick 5y ago
  Yes, and so what?? Find me a Western nation that would really take China over the USA. Do you really believe a world under a Chinese hegemony would be better?
  - justicezyx 5y ago
    The point is that we should get rid of hegemony and build a democratic international society. Not that letting someone replace USA... Of course Chinese hegemony is no better. Any hegemony is no better than another...
    - nlittlepoole 5y ago
      Yeah but that's realistically not an option that is on the table. A decent part of the American electorate is not interested in that because honestly it doesn't benefit us directly. The choices today for most countries are the same as it was in 1945, side with the US, side with the communist, or be "non aligned" and have your government/infrastructure undermined by intelligence from both sides.
      - star-trek-fleet 5y ago
        Why aiming for international democracy is not an option? You didn't explain that. And please, stop using communists to refer to anything on earth. There is no such thing as communist nowadays. If you think there is a communist in China, that person probably will be shunned as one would be in USA...
        ravel-bar-foo 5y ago
        What is international democracy? We currently have the UN, but in practice it draws on the resources of the US to enforce its decisions (such as Iran sanctions). So what system do you have to propose, and how is it better? Remember that your explanation must explain how International Democracy avoids interacts with conflict between nations, how it maintains the global economy, in particular the safety of the shipping lanes and banking systems / currency exchanges. You must be able to adjudicate border disputes and prevent large nations from claiming large swaths of sea as territory. You must be able to explain how your system avoids becoming a tyranny of the richest, strongest, or most cunning states, as well as how it remains stable and doesn't become anarchy. Good luck.
twofornone 5y ago
>The rest of Cold War 2.0 hasn't really started yet I suspect it has been raging for some time now, online, by bots and so called shills in the form of information warfare.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  It's been going for well over a decade, and it's intensifying.
  - 3pt14159 5y ago
    When I say "hasn't really started yet" I really mean it. China gutted Nortel here in Canada, and they've been hacking and ripping off IP wherever they can, but realistically this is nothing close to the scale of the Cold War. They've been biding their time and playing down their capabilities. Holding relatively small numbers of nuclear weapons and largely focussing on building soft power through investment ala belt and road over real power projection that the Soviets or Nato have done. That's starting to change, but it's not a real Cold War until the business class gets nervous going over the boarder and right now they're still piling into China.
    - nebula8804 5y ago
      China has hundreds of EV car startups and it appears that they are reaching the capability of making half decent cars. When these cars enter places like the US market, they are going to decimate the competition. We should probably expect an invasion of Chinese cars in the next few years. For example: [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_e2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_e2 This car looks like a decent entry level car, 190-250 Miles. starting at around ~16k. Even if it sells for 25k in the US, it seems like good value.
      - dragontamer 5y ago
        The 1980s wasn't called the "Cold War era" because Japan suddenly gave us nice cars. The USA welcomes economic competition with foreign rivals. May the best car win. The issue is that China is beginning to aggressively take out interest in Democracies in their sphere: first Hong Kong, and everyone knows that Taiwan is in their crosshairs now. We didn't (and wouldn't) go to war over Hong Kong. Taiwan however... that's different and is truly a serious threat. --------- If anything: additional trade and cultural exchanges are needed to foster a spirit of competition / cooperation even in the face of our nuclear weapons being trained upon each other. We don't really know if the Moscow Circus prevented a US / Soviet nuclear exchange... but maybe it did??
dv_dt 5y ago
The odd part is removing equipment after the fact is the most expensive way to reduce the risk. If one were serious about it governments should be reintroducing industrial investment policies encouraging investments over longer then 1-3yr time spans.
creaturemachine 5y ago
Same here, and I wonder if the abduction of the two Mikes and the totally-unrelated Meng affair had the same impact on Americans as it did for us.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > the abduction of the two Mikes What's incredible is how submissive Trudeau was. The charges were completely made-up yet he couldn't secure their release for three years. That's weak.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - analyst74 5y ago
    He was stuck between the rock and a hard place. It's like your daddy wants you to take the neighbourhood bully's toy, so you stole his toy, and now the bully came and took two of yours. What are you supposed to do?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- elliekelly 5y ago
  Can you elaborate on the two Mikes? I’m somehow entirely unfamiliar with what you’re referring to.
  - tempest_ 5y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Michael_Spavor_and_Michael_Kovrig https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Michael_Spavor_an...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- secondaryacct 5y ago
literallyaduck 5y ago
[flagged]

throwaway21_ 5y ago

That's interesting - talking about Chinese hegemony and ignoring 750 US bases worldwide and all the misery they brought all around the world - South America, SE Asia, Middle East...

echlebek 5y ago
Whataboutism. Canada has little to fear from US hegemony and a lot to fear from Chinese hegemony, it's as simple as that.
- throwaway21_ 5y ago
  Nobody cares what Canada fears or not. Simple fact is that there's no Chinese hegemony now and there won't be one in foreseeable future because there's existing hegemon that won't just give up. btw one man's whataboutism is another man's uncovering of hypocrisy.
  - tick_tock_tick 5y ago
    > btw one man's whataboutism is another man's uncovering of hypocrisy. They didn't say anything about the USA hegemony being bad just that they didn't want a Chinese one. How is that hypocrisy?
908B64B197 5y ago
> and ignoring 750 US bases worldwide and all the misery they brought all around the world The alternative being Russian (or rather, USSR) bases. Yeah, pretty sure citizens of the countries with bases would rather have the US as a partner rather than the alternative.
tick_tock_tick 5y ago
Yes, and so what?? Find me a Western nation that would really take China over the USA. Do you really believe a world under a Chinese hegemony would be better?
- justicezyx 5y ago
  The point is that we should get rid of hegemony and build a democratic international society. Not that letting someone replace USA... Of course Chinese hegemony is no better. Any hegemony is no better than another...
  - nlittlepoole 5y ago
    Yeah but that's realistically not an option that is on the table. A decent part of the American electorate is not interested in that because honestly it doesn't benefit us directly. The choices today for most countries are the same as it was in 1945, side with the US, side with the communist, or be "non aligned" and have your government/infrastructure undermined by intelligence from both sides.
    - star-trek-fleet 5y ago
      Why aiming for international democracy is not an option? You didn't explain that. And please, stop using communists to refer to anything on earth. There is no such thing as communist nowadays. If you think there is a communist in China, that person probably will be shunned as one would be in USA...
      - ravel-bar-foo 5y ago
        What is international democracy? We currently have the UN, but in practice it draws on the resources of the US to enforce its decisions (such as Iran sanctions). So what system do you have to propose, and how is it better? Remember that your explanation must explain how International Democracy avoids interacts with conflict between nations, how it maintains the global economy, in particular the safety of the shipping lanes and banking systems / currency exchanges. You must be able to adjudicate border disputes and prevent large nations from claiming large swaths of sea as territory. You must be able to explain how your system avoids becoming a tyranny of the richest, strongest, or most cunning states, as well as how it remains stable and doesn't become anarchy. Good luck.

twofornone 5y ago

>The rest of Cold War 2.0 hasn't really started yet I suspect it has been raging for some time now, online, by bots and so called shills in the form of information warfare.

jacquesm 5y ago
It's been going for well over a decade, and it's intensifying.
- 3pt14159 5y ago
  When I say "hasn't really started yet" I really mean it. China gutted Nortel here in Canada, and they've been hacking and ripping off IP wherever they can, but realistically this is nothing close to the scale of the Cold War. They've been biding their time and playing down their capabilities. Holding relatively small numbers of nuclear weapons and largely focussing on building soft power through investment ala belt and road over real power projection that the Soviets or Nato have done. That's starting to change, but it's not a real Cold War until the business class gets nervous going over the boarder and right now they're still piling into China.
  - nebula8804 5y ago
    China has hundreds of EV car startups and it appears that they are reaching the capability of making half decent cars. When these cars enter places like the US market, they are going to decimate the competition. We should probably expect an invasion of Chinese cars in the next few years. For example: [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_e2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_e2 This car looks like a decent entry level car, 190-250 Miles. starting at around ~16k. Even if it sells for 25k in the US, it seems like good value.
    - dragontamer 5y ago
      The 1980s wasn't called the "Cold War era" because Japan suddenly gave us nice cars. The USA welcomes economic competition with foreign rivals. May the best car win. The issue is that China is beginning to aggressively take out interest in Democracies in their sphere: first Hong Kong, and everyone knows that Taiwan is in their crosshairs now. We didn't (and wouldn't) go to war over Hong Kong. Taiwan however... that's different and is truly a serious threat. --------- If anything: additional trade and cultural exchanges are needed to foster a spirit of competition / cooperation even in the face of our nuclear weapons being trained upon each other. We don't really know if the Moscow Circus prevented a US / Soviet nuclear exchange... but maybe it did??

dv_dt 5y ago

The odd part is removing equipment after the fact is the most expensive way to reduce the risk. If one were serious about it governments should be reintroducing industrial investment policies encouraging investments over longer then 1-3yr time spans.

creaturemachine 5y ago

Same here, and I wonder if the abduction of the two Mikes and the totally-unrelated Meng affair had the same impact on Americans as it did for us.

908B64B197 5y ago
> the abduction of the two Mikes What's incredible is how submissive Trudeau was. The charges were completely made-up yet he couldn't secure their release for three years. That's weak.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- analyst74 5y ago
  He was stuck between the rock and a hard place. It's like your daddy wants you to take the neighbourhood bully's toy, so you stole his toy, and now the bully came and took two of yours. What are you supposed to do?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
elliekelly 5y ago
Can you elaborate on the two Mikes? I’m somehow entirely unfamiliar with what you’re referring to.
- tempest_ 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Michael_Spavor_and_Michael_Kovrig https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Michael_Spavor_an...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
secondaryacct 5y ago

literallyaduck 5y ago

[flagged]