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Oh for fucks sake, every month this topic comes back. It honestly doesn't matter if the fundamentals are useful or not. What gets me is that programmers want to

Oh for fucks sake, every month this topic comes back. It honestly doesn't matter if the fundamentals are useful or not. What gets me is that programmers want to be hired by top-tier companies and earn massive salaries without putting a single drop of effort into actually acquiring the knowledge that justifies that position. Can we just collectively swallow our privilege and stop whining that an employer is asking for proof that you've actually put the effort to be an engineer before they dump a river of money onto you? Look at how lucky you're before whining that the world is unfair, and shut the hell up about fundamentals. The interviews surely aren't perfect, but the constant whining is ridiculous. Why not just study it and be done with it already?

Clubber 5y ago
>an employer is asking for proof that you've actually put the effort to be an engineer before they dump a river of money onto you? But that's the rub, knowing the acronym to ACID isn't proof of anything other than you read about it recently. Asking about the ACID test is like asking what Chipper Jones' batting average was in 1994 when interviewing to be a baseball player in 2021. 20+ years ago, I could recite all that shit from memory, but after building countless systems from the ground up which are still in use today, I can only remember reading about it but I can't recite the words of the acronym. Hiring in IT is fundamentally broken and has been for decades and probably will be for decades. This is an example of it, that is the discussion.
- rockbruno 5y ago
  Sure, but my counter-point is: "who cares?" Why is it important for the process to the perfectly fair when there's a truck-load of money at play? As soon as you get hired you're set for life, so what's so terrible about having to spend some time learning about a couple of additional concepts? Even if you never use them again, you're still on the win by an unfathomable margin. Not to be disrespectful to anyone, but this "issue" is the personification of that gif with a man wiping his tears with 100 dollar bills. The tech community has become increasingly disconnected from the real world in the past 10 years.
  - Clubber 5y ago
    >it important for the process to the perfectly fair It's not about fairness, it's about the ability for a company to hire what they need, and the person who best fits that need to be hired. That isn't happening now because the hiring process is broken. I think the main issue is people are afraid to fire employees who don't work out, although there are plenty of mechanisms (legal and policy) to make this frictionless. There is also a tsunami of unqualified people trying to get hired because it's one of the last few occupations that pays fairly well. >As soon as you get hired you're set for life That isn't anywhere close to true. >The tech community has become increasingly disconnected from the real world in the past 10 years. Sounds like you have an axe to grind. What are you basing this off of? I assume you don't work in tech.
- deleted 5y ago
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vsareto 5y ago
This isn't about studying and going through it once - you have to study it, go through it with most companies you interview with, and then re-study it once you've not done it in your job for a while. It isn't about putting in the effort. It's that even after you've provably put in the effort, they still don't believe that you've put in the effort, and so they constantly test you to make sure that you've put in the effort.
MattGaiser 5y ago
Because you aren't done with it. You need to re-learn it every year to get a raise. So about 20% of my time in this field is spent doing stuff exclusively for interviewing purposes.

Clubber 5y ago

>an employer is asking for proof that you've actually put the effort to be an engineer before they dump a river of money onto you? But that's the rub, knowing the acronym to ACID isn't proof of anything other than you read about it recently. Asking about the ACID test is like asking what Chipper Jones' batting average was in 1994 when interviewing to be a baseball player in 2021. 20+ years ago, I could recite all that shit from memory, but after building countless systems from the ground up which are still in use today, I can only remember reading about it but I can't recite the words of the acronym. Hiring in IT is fundamentally broken and has been for decades and probably will be for decades. This is an example of it, that is the discussion.

rockbruno 5y ago
Sure, but my counter-point is: "who cares?" Why is it important for the process to the perfectly fair when there's a truck-load of money at play? As soon as you get hired you're set for life, so what's so terrible about having to spend some time learning about a couple of additional concepts? Even if you never use them again, you're still on the win by an unfathomable margin. Not to be disrespectful to anyone, but this "issue" is the personification of that gif with a man wiping his tears with 100 dollar bills. The tech community has become increasingly disconnected from the real world in the past 10 years.
- Clubber 5y ago
  >it important for the process to the perfectly fair It's not about fairness, it's about the ability for a company to hire what they need, and the person who best fits that need to be hired. That isn't happening now because the hiring process is broken. I think the main issue is people are afraid to fire employees who don't work out, although there are plenty of mechanisms (legal and policy) to make this frictionless. There is also a tsunami of unqualified people trying to get hired because it's one of the last few occupations that pays fairly well. >As soon as you get hired you're set for life That isn't anywhere close to true. >The tech community has become increasingly disconnected from the real world in the past 10 years. Sounds like you have an axe to grind. What are you basing this off of? I assume you don't work in tech.
deleted 5y ago
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vsareto 5y ago

This isn't about studying and going through it once - you have to study it, go through it with most companies you interview with, and then re-study it once you've not done it in your job for a while. It isn't about putting in the effort. It's that even after you've provably put in the effort, they still don't believe that you've put in the effort, and so they constantly test you to make sure that you've put in the effort.

MattGaiser 5y ago

Because you aren't done with it. You need to re-learn it every year to get a raise. So about 20% of my time in this field is spent doing stuff exclusively for interviewing purposes.