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And you can't really have a sane conversation with these guys either. I've never met a more arrogant programming community than the c++. I wanted to learn more

by kovac 5y ago

And you can't really have a sane conversation with these guys either. I've never met a more arrogant programming community than the c++. I wanted to learn more low level programming when I was a C# dev, and coming from an OOP background, I chose C++ (also I had encountered c++ in school as a first language) . Man, was it humiliating asking questions even on stack overflow. Apparently everything is obvious and I'm an idiot. In any case, I dropped C++ (not because of the obnoxious community but the language felt so poorly designed, coming from C#) and turned to C. Its been so far an amazing experience learning from C community. They are deeply insightful about computers and genuinely willing to help new engineers. Very experienced and very high calibre c engineers were helping me out without trying to show off how much smarter they are than the rest of the world despite being clearly far better and smarter than I am.

eska 5y ago
There are a lot of hardware engineers at my company that more or less occasionally use Python or C# to get their job done. I understand that those languages are the better choice for them and gladly help them with getting C bindings done for the odd library in our industry, and to understand some low level concepts such as CPU cache when they run into problems due to those. I turned away from the C++ unity towards the Rust community because I saw the same issue as you, and am very happy about that decision.
pjmlp 5y ago
It is somehow ironic to read this, given the heat given to newcomers on comp.lang.c and even the moderated one on Usenet.
muststopmyths 5y ago
I'm sorry, but using stackoverflow as a proxy for any "community" is giving that s(h)ite too much credit. It is infected with arrogant assholes regardless of the field. (I guess I'm old and misanthropic but I would not seek out answers by asking on the internet, but instead by reading one of the many excellent books on C++. It's not some obscure hobby where you need the collective wisdom of old hands.) Now, I've been doing C++ for 20+ years, and the only real way to get help/mentorship in my experience is people you work with. There are too many ways to do any given thing in C++ and what you want is to follow the coding practices of the team.
- deeviant 5y ago
  So, your answer to somebody that found it difficult to get help from the c++ community is to first admit your are a misanthrope then direct the other guy to: go read some books and learn it for yourself! Kind of proving the other persons point for them...
  - muststopmyths 5y ago
    Read what I said: 1. stackoverflow is a bad "community" for any field. 2. I described how I would approach learning C++, based on my personality. I didn't "direct" anyone to do anything. Especially since I phrased it as a literal parenthetical.
    - PostThisTooFast 5y ago
      There are quite a few assholes on SO. If you want to troll for some, just suggest that people shouldn't be able to anonymously downvote others. They go apeshit over that idea. Gee, wonder why...
- rramadass 5y ago
  Well said. One thing i have noticed is that many people trying to learn C++ (or any other language for that matter) don't even do the basic homework (eg. read a book) before asking questions. They expect everything to be spoon-fed and to "easily" understand it all. Even a little effort is too much. They simply lack the commitment and persistence to learn anything non-trivial.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
PostThisTooFast 5y ago
I worked at a business-software company that was building a prototype in Visual Basic, while a team of C++ coders was building the "production" version in Visual C++. At that time ('90s), the VBX controls across those two environments didn't have parity, but the C++ programmers turned up their noses and scoffed at using VB to build what was little more than a CRUD app. They struggled to implement what was easily accomplished in VB. The entire snobby C++ team was fired, and the prototype was finished by a few people and some contractors and released as the product.

by kovac 5y ago

eska 5y ago

There are a lot of hardware engineers at my company that more or less occasionally use Python or C# to get their job done. I understand that those languages are the better choice for them and gladly help them with getting C bindings done for the odd library in our industry, and to understand some low level concepts such as CPU cache when they run into problems due to those. I turned away from the C++ unity towards the Rust community because I saw the same issue as you, and am very happy about that decision.

pjmlp 5y ago

It is somehow ironic to read this, given the heat given to newcomers on comp.lang.c and even the moderated one on Usenet.

muststopmyths 5y ago

I'm sorry, but using stackoverflow as a proxy for any "community" is giving that s(h)ite too much credit. It is infected with arrogant assholes regardless of the field. (I guess I'm old and misanthropic but I would not seek out answers by asking on the internet, but instead by reading one of the many excellent books on C++. It's not some obscure hobby where you need the collective wisdom of old hands.) Now, I've been doing C++ for 20+ years, and the only real way to get help/mentorship in my experience is people you work with. There are too many ways to do any given thing in C++ and what you want is to follow the coding practices of the team.

deeviant 5y ago
So, your answer to somebody that found it difficult to get help from the c++ community is to first admit your are a misanthrope then direct the other guy to: go read some books and learn it for yourself! Kind of proving the other persons point for them...
- muststopmyths 5y ago
  Read what I said: 1. stackoverflow is a bad "community" for any field. 2. I described how I would approach learning C++, based on my personality. I didn't "direct" anyone to do anything. Especially since I phrased it as a literal parenthetical.
  - PostThisTooFast 5y ago
    There are quite a few assholes on SO. If you want to troll for some, just suggest that people shouldn't be able to anonymously downvote others. They go apeshit over that idea. Gee, wonder why...
rramadass 5y ago
Well said. One thing i have noticed is that many people trying to learn C++ (or any other language for that matter) don't even do the basic homework (eg. read a book) before asking questions. They expect everything to be spoon-fed and to "easily" understand it all. Even a little effort is too much. They simply lack the commitment and persistence to learn anything non-trivial.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

PostThisTooFast 5y ago

I worked at a business-software company that was building a prototype in Visual Basic, while a team of C++ coders was building the "production" version in Visual C++. At that time ('90s), the VBX controls across those two environments didn't have parity, but the C++ programmers turned up their noses and scoffed at using VB to build what was little more than a CRUD app. They struggled to implement what was easily accomplished in VB. The entire snobby C++ team was fired, and the prototype was finished by a few people and some contractors and released as the product.